Matrix Games Forums

Spickle, I strongly suggest if you want to play Hearts of Iron, you actually should play Hearts of iron

I highly doubt this game will be anything like HoI nor should you wait around to hear it will ever be real time.

Frankly, if they made this game real time, you would be unable to pay me to play it, let alone give it to me and make me like it.

Oh if you have not seen me say it yet, HoI sucks enough that I call it the worst wargame ever made

I have to agree in part. They should aim to be as close to the boardgame as possible, without making it a pain to play on a computer, gameplay should come first. And please, don't turn it into a real time game.

As for HoI, I like it, was too easy on its own tho. But there are mods out there that are great. There is one that makes it a real challenge, adding tons of events, changing the research tree, changing the icons and other things. The historical events with multiple choices are the things that got me hooked the most. It's also the part that I loved in Europa Universalis. So, HoI, an ok game on its own, a great game when modded.

Les the Sarge 9-1 wrote:Spickle, I strongly suggest if you want to play Hearts of Iron, you actually should play Hearts of iron

I highly doubt this game will be anything like HoI nor should you wait around to hear it will ever be real time.

Frankly, if they made this game real time, you would be unable to pay me to play it, let alone give it to me and make me like it.

Oh if you have not seen me say it yet, HoI sucks enough that I call it the worst wargame ever made

I do play HoI and I think the realtime works well. Now there are problems with it, I accept that, but I don't think they come from the lack of turnbase. I pause the game enough so that things don't over power me. If you slow things down far enough then you don't even have to do that.

I haven't played WiF, so I really can't comment on what is suitable for it, just what I prefer to play with, if we are to assume either method was to work.

If I may ask, what's this "SC" you speak of?

SC = Strategic Command found over at Battlefront.com one of the best wargames on the market if you like turn based grand strategy WW2 designs. It isn't fully global though, it concentrates on the European theater.

Real Time in WiF? That would just make it a totally different game and not WiF in any aspect at all

I am totally psyched, buy you've got to get this done before I leave for Japan next July!

I've loved WiF since the first edition and I can hardly wait to play it over a network connection. It solves the Married with Children problem of not having room to set up the maps for a long period of time!

Spickle, I must warn you, for PBEM/TCIP/HtoH, SC is a very addicting game, so clear out the women and children if you go down the SC road. I see "the Sarge" has finally bought into subtle complexity of SC, I knew he would, but it took a shove here or there and now he to is embarking on the SC PBEM road. Good luck Sarge, I'll see you on the battlefield........SeaMonkey out!

I would like to see CWiF to be as much like the Boardgame as possible.
Anyone who has played it for any lenght of time and is still playing it to this day, is not going to settle for less than the whole. The inter-relationship between Air, Land and Sea battles, taking place across the globe, Axis vs Allies is what WiF is about. Ebb and flow, memorable defenses against the odds, overwhelming force, diplomatic choices and economic plans. All rolled into one neat game.

A computer version that allows for each expansions to be added at a later time, for greater complexity and historical realism is a game of dreams. Releasing just the basic Classic WiF, no expansions, with an AI, could very well make a classic Computer game for beginners and vets alike that could easily stand the test of time. That includes the short attention span of some. Get the Foundation right and the "smarter" AI and expansions can come later. IMHO

WiF is a thinking man's game. Once you learn the how to build, move and execute your plans. You find time and distance to be just as much an obstacle as your opponent. With no set end of turn, many plans may get shelved and/or continued over many turns. Axis or Allies your choices expand with every move and countermove.

The beta version, released for testing has a planet size map, at the same scale across the world. I applaude this decision. The boardgame for space requirements could not be enlarged any more than it has been with the latest maps. No more calculating "pacific" map scale and "European" scale and "Offmap" box scale. Granted you lose the grand perspective maps on a table give you, but hey it is not limited within your mind.
(Maybe some kind of Print map could be included for the times between turns to ponder some grand battle).
For this is a long game. Think 50+hours. With 4 players and myself, we played one game that lasted 2 months, playing every weekend and 1 night a week. Took up half the house and needed to be protected from "accidents". We were younger fanatics back then. Spending the night and continuing the next day.

I am very motivated to see this game become reality. There is nothing like it out there. I see it as the only real boardgame to become a computer version, with a chance, to have a real fan base, now that Matrix has picked it up.
Glad to see Matrix and ADG come together for the boardgamers still out there.

Heck, i'll even donate my time to see this project to completion. Look forward to more updates and its own disscussion area in the future.

Hmm that expansions notion actually has some appeal to me at the moment.

I am looking foward to this game....should be interesting. And if Matrix is counting how many "hits" they are getting on this topic, then yeah, count me as being a future sale.

Yeah I think it is a given, WiF is no one's idea of a minor wargame liked by just a few.

And I think it is a given, it is well ahead of just about anything pretending to being a global grand strategy wargame for WW2.

Now all it has to do is accomplish the task of moving onto the computer without losing any of its original quality in the process.

Currently I consider Strategic Command the only wargame worth mention in grand strategy.
It is virtually alone in all of computer wargaming as a game I will spend money on. And in most respects, it is the only game I will pay even if the competition was offered to me free.

cWiF will be a potentially very welcome game if made as good as the board game is. And WiF didn't earn all the awards it earned by loud noisy forums hehe.
It had to earn them in an era when the game had to be good first.

Well, I'll take it from the the resounding replies that WiF would be better turnbased then.

I am very excited to see the cross-over of this very wonderful boardgame to the computer. Finally something to put HOI dead in it's tracks, that's fun to play and doesn't take a year to finish a MP game.

I only ask, beg, plead, implore, anoint your feet even if you will make the AI challenging and not stupid. Let it cheat if it has to, but, please make the SP portion of this a challenge. I am pretty disappointed in HOI and it's rediculously stupid AI. Historical events need to be "scripted" not just a random event that pops whenever it feels like it. And please make the allied invasion forces something to contend with if one plays the Axis or Japan, HOI is awful when it comes to invading. Might just as well just play Axis and Allies hehe. They hate it when I say that over at the HOI forum, but, it's my opinion and it's true for me.

I usually have trouble defending myself when I slag HoI

But I just don't like it.

Even when you subtract the debate over the AI, HoI should never have been made real time pausable turns just don't count.
Grand strategy just doesn't work well against the clock.

Well the one thing about HOI you could put it on ultra slow speed and not even notice that it was real time. I found myself setting up my tech trees, production, diplomacy and what not, then fast forwarding until I could actually do something. That element of the game didn't turn me off to HOI as much as the really lame AI all over the place, especially invading. The US and British AI was horrible for invading, even with handsoff mode just watching the computer play out the war many times, the allied forces never won, it was always either Germany/Axis or Russia. Plus the fact you have to have a contingent of online players that are dedicated to seeing a game through to it's end, which also was rare, too many losers would just drop from the game.

But, I believe WIF will be better all the way around if it's an actual conversion and the AI is strong, even as I said if it has to cheat, a good conversion of a game for SP is only as good as it's AI, IMHO. It doesn't have to be able to beat me, but, at least play like a 13 year old! hehe

Strategic Command is very good right now for me, before that it was Clash of Steel.

Also I know this is offtopic, but, I'm new here so I get a break..right? lol But, I'd really like to find a good Strategic/Tactical Civil War Game and also a Napoleanic period Strategic/Tactical as well. I have Sid Meiers Gettysburg/Antietam series and Napoleans Last Battles and the Talon Soft Games, but, these are like battles, I'd like to find one that allows me to handle the political, resources and battle system all in one that's good. (Meaning a decent AI) (ducking from the moderators that are eyeballing me right now) heh

I had to dreams. A Lord of the Rings movie and a World in Flames computer game. I am in heaven now.

To Matrix:

1) Take your time. We have waited years for this, we can wait a few more if that's what it takes.

2) Keep it turnbased.

3) If you have to choose between gameplay and faithfulness to the boardgame, choose gameplay.

4) For a game this complex, the interface and ease of use must be a priority, otherwise you will get a Masters of Orion III nightmare.

5) DO NOT ship a game without an AI with the promise that there will be an AI later. You want to sell as many copies as you can so do not limit yourself by releasing a version for only the small segment of the wargamer market that will play ONLY multi-player and not single-player.

6) I know this point will ruffle some people's feathers but you cannot ignore the reality of the market, most copies will be bought by those wargamers who will play single-player and will rarely if ever play multi-player. Of course you want to offer both options and have both be interesting, engaging, and challenging. Of course multi-player will be more challenging because the AI will never be able to play as well as a human being. But ultimately, becuase of the realities of the market, single-player must take precedence over multi-player. This is not to say that multi-player will be crap, but simply that you must know what your priorities are. Even if it means that your sill devote your resources, time, and money in a 51%/49% ration in favor of single-player, single-player must take precedence.

7) Have counters for us gronards and pretty unit sprites as eye-candy for everybody else.

8) Release an editor for us modders. This will rxtend the life of the game.

9) Make a game for the fans not the general public.

This is just my .09 cents . I wish you good luck and let me express my gratitude for bringing what is a dream for many of us and having the courage to do so. Thank you.

"ducking from the moderators that are eyeballing me right now"

You must be thinking of someplace else Ravinhood.

A. this is the Matrix Games Forums, and unless you spout anti social venomous garbage, no one is going to berate you. Well at least that is all that bother this dude

B. this is after the General Discussions forum. Sure there are lots of sites out there, but at Matrix Games, General Discussions is supposed to be were wargamers hangout to chat. Or at least that is what it is to me.

So sit back open a brew, you are among buddies eh.

Wow thanks Sarge, yah it's a lot different from one I've been on lately, the Total War site. Their moderators are like a police patrol. Say one thing out of line or off topic and it's either thread lock or delete. Heh. They don't even like you mentioning other games that are what some might consider competitors of their games. It's good to find a site where one can feel a little "free" than others. heh

Sometimes it's hard not to get off topic in threads though, because someone will bring up sort of a sub-topic within the thread which leads to other sub-topic threads, kinda like a web of threads all in one. I always felt as long as they didn't turn into flaming wars, anything should be allowed, cept real vulgarisms of course, but, I see you have some form of filter for those. Really good forum and site here. I feel at home! lol

I always felt the term "moderator" meant "moderation" and not "domination" anyways.

Anyways, thanks again. I'll be spending more of my time here now methinks.

Hmmm that does sound severe actually. I have another site I frequent, and I thought they were strict there, but yours sounds so much more strict.

Wander down to Steel Panthers World at War and Mega Campaigns. You will find that we generally don't mind people just being people for the most part.

You might not know this yet, but Matrix Games grew out of Steel Panthers to a large extent. So the Steel Panthers community is perhaps the oldest.
Although there are quite a few other game forums here too. A lot has been added in just the last year though.

Naturally if you have a non relevant question, it doesn't pay to put it in one of the more dedicated sub forums. I mean, there are a few sub forums here at Matrix Games I have never even entered let alone participated in. But then, most people won't be interested in virtually every game I would think.

But it has been my notice, that Matrix Games is not afraid to admit there are other people out there making wargames. And that to me means Matrix Games is more interested in being a friend to wargaming, than petty protectionist policies.

Granted, each web site is private property, but they usually only prosper when they are percieved as popular destinations.

Raverdave wrote:I am looking foward to this game....should be interesting. And if Matrix is counting how many "hits" they are getting on this topic, then yeah, count me as being a future sale.

Roger that - count me in! This is the game I've been waiting my whole life for me thinks!