Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Allied ASW is too accurate at the moment and just about all the testers are in agreement. Something is going to be done about it as this is a priority issue I believe.

It`s not consistant at all, as other posters have indicated.

In one Campaign Game start as the US VS the AI my ASW surface TF sank 2 Japanese Subs off Pearl on 7 Dec. and damaged another.

In another CG start as US VS the AI I`m up to 1/42 and have got only 3 contacts and have hit or sunk no subs.

Perhaps if all the testers are playing PBEM Scenarios they are seeing different results then those playing the AI.

Having said that, why not let the Game, especially the Campaign Game, get a wider exposure and more playing time, with more folks before the usual downgrading of the US starts up. I mean how can any judgements be made until a number of full Campaigns VS the AI are finished and reported on in the Forums?

I mentioned this earlier but I think I should give it its own post.
Using planes for ASW ops is completly useless. I havnt seen a single attack...and of course that means I havnt seen a single hit.
Subs feared planes more than depth charges from escorts. But in WiTP they can cruise around with impunity and never have to worry about air strikes sending them to davey jones locker.

ORIGINAL: freeboy

is this perhaps a fow issue? Are those misses being counted as duds?
just a thought

Nope. If you watch the combat screen it shows the sub firing... Then either "Torpedoes Miss", "Torpedoes Failed to Detonate" or you get to watch a nice little explosion [:'(] Definate duds.

Xargun

I have the screen but not the text probably not seeing it.. thanks again

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I mentioned this earlier but I think I should give it its own post.
Using planes for ASW ops is completly useless. I havnt seen a single attack...and of course that means I havnt seen a single hit.
Subs feared planes more than depth charges from escorts. But in WiTP they can cruise around with impunity and never have to worry about air strikes sending them to davey jones locker.

In my testing, air ASW attacks occur less often than in UV. They will hit subs but don't hold your breath while waiting (although I've still managed to create air ASW killing grounds in the right circumstances).

They perform a vital role in detecting the presence of subs in a location and are excellent support for TFs in the area.

The more ASW a/c in the air, the more experienced they are and the shorter the distance flown to the sub, the better the chance of detection. The better the detection level, the more likely a sub will be attacked and hit.

But if you've already taken all this into account for your opinion, fine. [;)]

Cheers

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I mentioned this earlier but I think I should give it its own post.
Using planes for ASW ops is completly useless. I havnt seen a single attack...and of course that means I havnt seen a single hit.
Subs feared planes more than depth charges from escorts. But in WiTP they can cruise around with impunity and never have to worry about air strikes sending them to davey jones locker.

I've seen my patrol planes attack enemy subs a couple different times. I actually got a hit on one sub as well from patrol planes. BUT, they only had their cannons, so not much damage was done.

Xargun

my ijn sugs got straffed when they where transiting.. but when "on station" not nearly as frequently it appears

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Allied ASW is too accurate at the moment and just about all the testers are in agreement. Something is going to be done about it as this is a priority issue I believe.

It`s not consistant at all, as other posters have indicated.

In one Campaign Game start as the US VS the AI my ASW surface TF sank 2 Japanese Subs off Pearl on 7 Dec. and damaged another.

In another CG start as US VS the AI I`m up to 1/42 and have got only 3 contacts and have hit or sunk no subs.

Perhaps if all the testers are playing PBEM Scenarios they are seeing different results then those playing the AI.

Having said that, why not let the Game, especially the Campaign Game, get a wider exposure and more playing time, with more folks before the usual downgrading of the US starts up. I mean how can any judgements be made until a number of full Campaigns VS the AI are finished and reported on in the Forums?

Black Cat. The retail version has the same ASW build as the last few Beta Versions. This was not drawn based on a few days playing by new purchasers but by a few months of beta testing. No shot from the hip happening here.

Just as a temp fix for the IJN players.................MOVE YOUR SUBS..........Yes there is a problem with the Allied ASW but leaving your subs in the same hex turn after turn is asking for it.

ORIGINAL: Raverdave
.................MOVE YOUR SUBS..........

Good advice.

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Just as a temp fix for the IJN players.................MOVE YOUR SUBS..........Yes there is a problem with the Allied ASW but leaving your subs in the same hex turn after turn is asking for it.

And don't concentrate in one area, spread the pain. Force him to thin his escorts to protect each convoy etc. Less escorts, less chance to die.

I'm glad this is being looked at.

Slightly off-topic: I've finally made it to Day Three of the grand campaign (playing as the Allies), and I was interested to see that one of my level bombers actually attacked a submarine along with two other surface ships, and I saw the attack in the combat animations. I don't recall seeing this in UV. Kinda cool.

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

IJN depth charges seem too accurate as well. But they seem to find subs alot less.
I havnt played the IJN near as much so other will better be able to testify to the effectivness of the IJN side.

I think the IJN depth charging is about right.

Like you said,a lot of times they dont spot the sub in deep water.

It has been mentioned that aircraft attacks on SS are useless.

I must put in my own experience so far.. Dutch DO's flying from Java have been hell on the Jap subs around the area. 3 Kills so far and a few damages. 1 was a RO class sub went down from 1 attack. I was impressed.

But, yeah, my ASW TF's are the fist of an angry God right now.. if I send them out like 10DD strong.. subs die.. like stomping a bug dead

Except for large ASW groups, neither the AI nor my forces have been that good at ASW in my game. Maybe it's just the way the die rolls in my case.

I haven't seen any issue with lethality of airbased ASW platforms. Well maybe a little on the low side, but I see hits every couple of turns and have seen one aircraft sink a sub with two hits on the same attack (sub listed as sunk by a 500lb bomb). This may be due to two factors, jusy after the PH raid Hawaii is a target rich environment so I'm getting a lot of chances. And every air unit that's remotely in a condition to fly >40% of the squadron assets undamaged and moral >30% gets switched to ASW patrol at 100%.

Granted compared to the 1-DMS 4-DD Hunter-Killer groups of death the air seems impotent but I think they're closer to the truth than the sea based ASW.

Also if FoW is toggled on I probably shouldn't see the sub name that I'm attacking.

The problem only exists on the Allied side, particularily if 6+ escorts are used. I ran many many tests on ASW for both Japan and Allied, early and latewar period.

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Just as a temp fix for the IJN players.................MOVE YOUR SUBS..........Yes there is a problem with the Allied ASW but leaving your subs in the same hex turn after turn is asking for it.

Yes, I think the majority of them are spotted on turn one already.

Ive had reports of quiet a few hits on japanese subs in the lower left report screen whilst the turn is running
Ive not lost any sunk but i have had 2 damages by japanes a/c and i have 'reportedly' at least attacked a few japanese subs with ASW patrol aircraft

Its on the list.