Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

As for the war with Germany...if the people in charge in Germany had been as intelligent as the people fighting the war, It would be a different history.
If it had been left to the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe to run the war, at least a good portion of Europe would have German as their official language.
The Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe, for the most part, were very honorable and respectable warriors.

SOOOooooo true, at least from all the books i've read and i've read most of them........[:D]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

You mean like the old Prussian order that ran things during World War I? [:D]

Point taken...the people figured that they did so bad, that an Austrian Corporal could do better...[:D]

Several years ago, 60 MINUTES aired a story detailing improper thought on the part of the editors of a student publication, the DARTMOUTH REVIEW. The stories talent, Ed Bradley, visited the dorm room of one of the offending students and noticed a book about the Waffen SS. This was proof enough for Ed, the CBS producers and likely much of the American public. The case was closed, symbolically in this instance, but also the American mind as relates to so many enlightening aspects of military history.

TF 38

ORIGINAL: carnifex

But I don't know why Americans find jerry to be particularly intriguing and even appealing. It's a mystery to me.

I'll tell you why.

Or rather I will show you:

Not Dangerous


Extremely Dangerous


No Hat! Bald Head!


Super Hat!


Hope this helps you understand [:D]

Well...when I started playing war games 35 years ago that was the
deal. Now it seems to me that, having talked to people who fought in
Shermans against Tigers (this guy, the intelligence officer for the 6th
Armored) said "We knew where they were and we had gas and they did not." -- anyway, I no longer see things with the simpler, purer glories of
youth and in the light of experience and in the aftermath of being bored with jerry's superficial charms -- I find the allies more intriguing. After all, surely the guys who won with "inferior" stuff must have had a more
complex and interesting way of dealing with things. And sometimes they
even had cool hats.

ORIGINAL: TF 38

Several years ago, 60 MINUTES aired a story detailing improper thought on the part of the editors of a student publication, the DARTMOUTH REVIEW. The stories talent, Ed Bradley, visited the dorm room of one of the offending students and noticed a book about the Waffen SS. This was proof enough for Ed, the CBS producers and likely much of the American public. The case was closed, symbolically in this instance, but also the American mind as relates to so many enlightening aspects of military history.

TF 38

The thought police are here. [:@] 60 minutes is just another left-wing biased show on one of the libral networks. Only Fox News is fair and balanced.

So, did anybody actually watch the show last night? I missed it. Did they find the sub?

If my reading room were ever raided am sure I would be in Deep trouble. I have two copies of Catcher in the Rye, a dog eared paperback from High school, and a Leather Bound version I got at an estate sale. I have an Anarchist cookbook and Books by Guderian, Patton and Rommel. I have a copy of Mein Kampf and lots of Clausowitz and Nitzche. Some others are The Framing and Ratification of the Constitution by Levy and Mahoney, The Trial of Peter Zenger by James Alexander, Jefferson and Madison by Koch, the Framing and The Fathers of the U.S. Constitution by Max Farrand, Two treatises on Government by John Locke, Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville, George Washington by Woodrow Wilson, and the Declaration of Independence by Becker as well as others. I also have a copy of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and US Code. We won't even get into the books on 500B.C. to 1700 time frame lol.

Yes I fear the re-education camps. It was hard work to read all that stuff and fight the professors.

UB

Yeah they found the sub. it was a re-run of the show they had back in 2003 or 2002. They actually found it in 2002. Just outside of the Security Zone. It had a neat 4" hole in the conning tower right where the Ward said she hit it. Of Course the underlying theme was that the U.S. actually started teh war since we Technically fired the first shot. [8|] Just more of the insidious BLame America crowd. BTW they found the sub 2 miles off out of the Mouth of PH Channel.

UB

It was found in 2002 I believe...it was a good show though.

The only thing I didn't like is the fact that they kept saying how the popular opinion is that the Ward sailors were talking story and didn't really see a sub. I've always seen it stated as fact in everything I have read. If guys like that say something is so, you give them the respect enough do believe them.

ORIGINAL: UncleBuck
Of Course the underlying theme was that the U.S. actually started teh war since we Technically fired the first shot. [8|] Just more of the insidious BLame America crowd. BTW they found the sub 2 miles off out of the Mouth of PH Channel.

UB

Well, 2 miles is within US waters so the Ward was justified in sinking it.

Yeah I know, I know. They were not supposed to be there period. As for beleving teh WARD crew, I woudl think trained observers and Gun spotters should be taken as fact. They do it with other trained observers. I have never read it anywhere else that the sub was "CLaimed" but it was always fact. Regardless of what we now know, on Dec. 7th, the OOD should have run up the Aww S*&T flag when any warship reported an un-friendly sub in the security area and FIRED on it.

UB

Agreed...hindsight is always 20/20 though

They actually found it in 2002. Just outside of the Security Zone.

That's just where it settled on the bottom...It was well into the zone when it was hit.

Right, I was just mentioning it was just outside, but was within 2 miles of PH Main CHannel. The fact it was outside of the Security ZOne, where it finally rested, is why it wasn't found before now. No one had ever looked outside of the ZOne.

UB

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

It was found in 2002 I believe...it was a good show though.

The only thing I didn't like is the fact that they kept saying how the popular opinion is that the Ward sailors were talking story and didn't really see a sub. I've always seen it stated as fact in everything I have read. If guys like that say something is so, you give them the respect enough do believe them.

I imagine the HC wanted to make it more sensational so they reported
a lot of scepticism about the observation of the sub that did not actually
exist...so that HC could build suspense etc. etc.

I really did not like the show that much, they really did not focus on the history, but just seemed to use so much theory and fiction that when they finally found the sub, there was like 2 minutes left in the show. I much rather of seen a show that showed the sub at the bottom of the ocean in the beginning and then just told the history and events of what happened. Would that of been so hard or uninteresting?

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

I really did not like the show that much, they really did not focus on the history, but just seemed to use so much theory and fiction that when they finally found the sub, there was like 2 minutes left in the show. I much rather of seen a show that showed the sub at the bottom of the ocean in the beginning and then just told the history and events of what happened. Would that of been so hard or uninteresting?

It would have been fine. And why not explain a lot about the sub and the
theory of its operations?

The basic HC script pours an amazing amount of vacuous sensationalization over things to the point of virtually excluding the topic from consideration in a frenzy of "but the real story is more incredible than what really happened" verbiage.

Anyone in this forum could do a better script than the average HC script.

ORIGINAL: MengCiao


Anyone in this forum could do a better script than the average HC script.

I don't know if I could...my script wouldn't have had the cool Aussie accent in it...[:D]

What is it with all the narrators for stuff like this are either Brit or Aussie? Even for American history stuff it's like that...nothing against Brits or Aussies...just a question.

ORIGINAL: carnifex

You mean like the old Prussian order that ran things during World War I? [:D]

I will not defend Willie the Deuce, not von Moltke the Putz. [:'(]

The conduct and perception of the war would have been much different, though, even if the quality of the leadership was just as poor as the first time.

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

ORIGINAL: MengCiao


Anyone in this forum could do a better script than the average HC script.

I don't know if I could...my script wouldn't have had the cool Aussie accent in it...[:D]

What is it with all the narrators for stuff like this are either Brit or Aussie? Even for American history stuff it's like that...nothing against Brits or Aussies...just a question.

When I was a kid, Walter Krankheit narrated "the 20th Century" which was mosty WWII newsreels. It was a hell of a lot better than HC...after
a decade of America's HC no American thinks an American could possibly know what he's talking about. "Just look at what we've been watching. After all that crap about how what really happened was stranger than what really happened how could we possibly form a rational thought, much less a believable narrative?"