Matrix Games Forums

Thx . I want to rescue only eng unit with high air support or HQ with high air/ground support . Do I need to change HQ to any unit if I want to load that unit or only with these units on PH ?I don't understand why is that rule in the game .

Is this corect: Every unit in USA witch are in West Coast HQ can't be transport if you don't change HQ .

Only restricted HQ's need to be changed. West Coast, Australian Command, Phillipine Command, ABDA.

Save your game before you try to load the unit. Sometimes sub transport will not pick up support points. Look at the sub and see if it shows the unit on board. Then you'll know for sure if it worked. Get it to another base quickly, there is a current bug in the game that will vaporize the transported unit if the parent unit is destroyed.

I think this will be fixed in the upcoming patch.

Yes I have also found it to be great. Being really new its really helpful to have really specific advice in terms of gameplay. Until I get more familiar with the game, its hard to take general strategic advice and use it. Thanks for everyone who has participated.

As allies, the first ground troops that arrive are in 37 days. Out of the initial troops that you have available on turn 1, are any moved in the reinforce either PI or Singapore? Rangoon?

PI and Singapore are both within range bases with Large jap fighter and LB. I know its a good idea to evacuate the P40's and B17's from PI. Are there any Airgroups that you move in to either Malaya or PI?

Numerous people have said that they turn off Replacements for Airgroups in PI. Since there is such are large escort of Jap fighters, doesn't this doom the airgroups left in PI to be destroyed fairly quickly? Is there any point to leaving them in PI, instead of evacuating all Airgroups from PI?

ORIGINAL: khelvan

ORIGINAL: Halsey

A nifty little trick that I learned is to transport one submarine worth of troops from each unit. It still leaves 99.9% of the troops to fight. After the mother unit is destroyed that fragment will rebuild itself to full strength in 6 months to a year.[;)]

Would this be considered "gamey?"

Yes.

Gleep, you don't need to pull all the tricks out on turn one to win the game against the AI. You may find that you're disappointed by '43 because you've maintained too much of an advantage.

I only have one tip for the PI, and that is based on just one iteration of the first couple of turns. Clark gets whacked hard, including runway and service points. These prevent an effective CAP from being launched, so it keeps getting whacked and doesn't recover. It also prevents the damaged a/c from repairing. Manila, on the other hand, doesn't get whacked. At least in my game, moving a fighter group to Manila allowed the U.S. to launch a large enough CAP to ward off unescorted bomber raids on Clark.

I have no opinion on whether you should have your fighters set to accept replacements or not. But if and when you decide to move them out by ship, it will cost a heckuva lot fewer political points if you let the units get attrited. I think it's 4 PPs per a/c. A full strength fighter squadron would cost almost 100 PPs to move. A squadron with only 4 a/c only costs 12. You'll want your PPs, so keep this in mind. For that reason, you may want to divide the fighter group there and only ship the mother unit, leaving the detachments to fight and die in the PI. The parent will reconstitute to full strength somewhere else.

Turn replacements off on everything in the Phillipines and Singapore! Replacements suck up supply that you will need to bombard, survive, and fly missions. Turn the industry off in the cities to "do not repair". Let the Japanese spend there own supplies to fix them.

Transfer air groups out when there are only a few planes left. It costs a lot less PP's, 4 points per plane.

If the Singapore boys are doing well you can let them take replacements. That's your own call. Remember it burns supplies to do it. You just have to decide how the battle is going.

Fly your planes out. There are plenty of little airfields that can handle a few planes. Tip, you can't sink an island, so you won't lose your air unit forever. If it goes down on a ship it is gone for good.

For air units:
Look at how they upgrade. P-26's become P-39's then they become P-38's. Station some with your 4E bombers so when they become P-38's in Oct 42 you'll have escorts ready to fly with them.
P-40's are great for CAP and escorting medium bombers.

Hope this helps some.

So if I spend 1000 PP's to pull 3 squad level cadres out that is gamey. How do you save cadres? Or, do you just let the entire unit die? That is such a waste. Both sides can use this gamey approach. So it doesn't favor one side or the other. It still takes 6-12 months fo the unit to rebuild. REMF/LEG

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Fly your planes out. There are plenty of little airfields that can handle a few planes. Tip, you can't sink an island, so you won't lose your air unit forever. If it goes down on a ship it is gone for good.

While I agree with most of your statements, unless something has been changed, this is the current situation according to the manual:

Allied air units that are sunk while on a ship and that are not part of that ship’s normal air
mplement will return to the game as a reinforcement after 120 days.

and non Dutch Units that are "destroyed" on the ground, return in a year.

So, currently, if your are "playing" the system and don't mind losing the shipping, you might be better off to take the planes, crate them up, put them on some old tramp and sit them out in the ocean with a big "sink me" sign on them....at least if you are in a hurry to get them back in the future....of course, the amount of points lost for the planes and pilots would be high. But using ships would be the only way to get "damaged" planes out of a hot spot.. so, that would be the way it appears, unless something has been changed.

ORIGINAL: Halsey

So if I spend 1000 PP's to pull 3 squad level cadres out that is gamey. How do you save cadres? Or, do you just let the entire unit die? That is such a waste. Both sides can use this gamey approach. So it doesn't favor one side or the other. It still takes 6-12 months fo the unit to rebuild. REMF/LEG

I'm playing against the AI, which I doubt does this. My problem with all of this is based on what I guess is true. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.

I know effectively nothing about the OB of the U.S. in the Pacific. I would guess, though, that the units that were destroyed in the PI were not reconstituted during the war. I am also guessing that (i) the reinforcements received by the Allies during the game - at least for main frontline units - is fairly accurate and (ii) that troop and arty replacements are not a problem for the U.S. unless you are a sadistic commander. I would guess, then, that the affect of your trick, after the destroyed parent units are reconstituted, is that you give the U.S. about three extra divisions for the duration of the game that did not exist. It gives you much more flexibility and firepower. It would be the same thing as endlessly splitting aircraft units so that you have two and three times as many active aircraft in the game than was historic.

ORIGINAL: tabpub

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Fly your planes out. There are plenty of little airfields that can handle a few planes. Tip, you can't sink an island, so you won't lose your air unit forever. If it goes down on a ship it is gone for good.

While I agree with most of your statements, unless something has been changed, this is the current situation according to the manual:

Allied air units that are sunk while on a ship and that are not part of that ship’s normal air
mplement will return to the game as a reinforcement after 120 days.

and non Dutch Units that are "destroyed" on the ground, return in a year.

So, currently, if your are "playing" the system and don't mind losing the shipping, you might be better off to take the planes, crate them up, put them on some old tramp and sit them out in the ocean with a big "sink me" sign on them....at least if you are in a hurry to get them back in the future....of course, the amount of points lost for the planes and pilots would be high. But using ships would be the only way to get "damaged" planes out of a hot spot.. so, that would be the way it appears, unless something has been changed.

I'm guessing you're being at least a little sarcastic. Why waste a good AK or have to wait 120 days? Get what you can out, save the ship, and as soon as the a/c hit a port with sufficient supplies, they should receive replacements. They are ready for the next round within a couple of weeks in Australia and PM. I'd rather have them there within two weeks than have to ship them all the way from L.A. in four months.

You are right, the unit will come back. Minus all equipment and pilots. I'm just used to trying to save units that might be useful later.
Thanks for the correction![8D]

ORIGINAL: byron13

I'm guessing you're being at least a little sarcastic. Why waste a good AK or have to wait 120 days? Get what you can out, save the ship, and as soon as the a/c hit a port with sufficient supplies, they should receive replacements. They are ready for the next round within a couple of weeks in Australia and PM. I'd rather have them there within two weeks than have to ship them all the way from L.A. in four months.

A little. But, say you are defending the PI to the best of your ability. Some of that entails trying to ship in some supplies before the situation gets critically bad. Doing that, you might have an AK or 2 in Manila. In addition, you might have some 26's or 35's still sitting around that now can't make it anywhere due to the loss of bases. A viable thing would be to load them up and try to get BOTH out. You would have to send the AK out anyhow; and if you lose it, at least the airgroup will come back in 3 months, as opposed to 12 if it stays. Pilots would be lost in either event.

Now, if you are doing the "Flee the Philippines" thing right off the bat, then no, you wouldn't have to do something like this. But, I don't flee right away.

Okay, I don't think we disagree on anything. I thought you were saying it was preferable to have the ship sunk with a/c onboard than to have the ship pass safely to wherever with the a/c onboard. I gather what you're really saying is that it is preferable to lose a/c on a sunk ship than to have the a/c overrun on the ground in the PI. Agree there too.

Greetings all,

In a couple of the above posts, I saw a mention of Base Forces growing (or not growing if you transported them). I tried understanding how the manual explained it, but I got the impression that only base forces for the computer player "grew". I interpreted that to mean those controlled by the AI.

What am I missing?

Kinda killing time until 1.3 comes out. One can hope... It is the 23rd, and that is in "this month" [:D]

Thanks

Terry

Halsey, by "gamey," I was asking if this tactic would be considered a faux pas in a game where the players try to stick with "realistic" tactics.

I will give you an example. In another historical wargame I play, Combat Mission, it would be considered "gamey" to take, say, a group of infantry on unarmed transports and do an unsupported end run around the edge of the map to the enemy's rear area (for various reasons that I will go into if you are interested). A parallel I can draw to WITP is loading up a group of AP's or AK's with some infantry and hitting a rear base without naval or air support.

So the question for me is not "is this tactic fair for both players?", it is "might this tactic have been realistically considered in context?" The initial thought that drove my question was that if any troops were to be evacuated in this situation, it would be more like Dunkirk (i.e. an attempt at mass evacuation) rather than slipping a cadre out in a submarine (because you know that in a year the unit will be full strength again due to the game mechanics). So, given what I say above, would the tactic be considered a "gamey" one?

I wouldn't object. You have finite resources. If you would prefer to use them to build back old units, rather than speed the buildup of current ones, you may. Essentially, zero sum situation. Especially, if you went to the expense of converting some unit from a restricted command, and then risked other assets to recover it. Personally, probably too expensive and risky to do on any great scale, especially vs. a crafty human.

ORIGINAL: Halsey

But if and when you decide to move them out by ship, it will cost a heckuva lot fewer political points if you let the units get attrited. I think it's 4 PPs per a/c. A full strength fighter squadron would cost almost 100 PPs to move. A squadron with only 4 a/c only costs 12. You'll want your PPs, so keep this in mind. For that reason, you may want to divide the fighter group there and only ship the mother unit, leaving the detachments to fight and die in the PI. The parent will reconstitute to full strength somewhere else.

Its hard to get out of the mindset of UV, and into the PP system, in the sense that letting my Airgroups get banged up is a good thing hehe.

Now its time to take what I have learned in this thread and go play some WitP!

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Turn the industry off in the cities to "do not repair". Let the Japanese spend there own supplies to fix them.

Do not do this! The AI will never turn repair back on so will make no attempt to repair things you bombard. I've tested this in Rangoon in my game, I had Mandalay turned off and 3-4 turns after it was captured and I had bombed it, I switched to the Japanese side and sure enough it was still off. So I think for a better overall game it's best to leave repair on till the bug gets squashed.

Jim

Another bug? I didn't know about this one. Thanks

It's just a way of bending the mechanics of the game. It still takes a long time to reconstitute it after the fragment becomes a cadre, and both sides can use this option. In reality, units are never really destroyed. Any real combat unit taking casualties of devastating proportions would have been rebuilt or consolidated in reality, providing troop and equipment availability. It was bad for the folks at home to hear of a unit being destroyed.

I would consider gamey, taking a fragment of a unit, and landing it by sub on coastal railroads to block supply flows. Suicide raids against non-dot hexes to disrupt resources and such. I always put the new cadre in a safe and useful place to rebuild. A year is still a long time. It also functions as a small garrison during it rebuilding period.

A player, with experience of the games mechanics, will always find ways to do things that might be considered gamey. This is just a nature of the beast that we all enjoy. Simulating warfare.[:)]