Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980


Publishing company or not (read their who's who link, not ALL of these guys are publishers at all and they aren't as small as some of you seem to THINK they are), you don't send the ENTIRE STAFF to trade shows, period. At least leave SOMEONE behind that can continue to deal with the business end of things. I don't give a damn if they have 5 people and sell 500 CD's a year, you STILL don't send ALL your people capable of operating the business to some show, no matter HOW important it is. I still fail to see how having five or six or however many they send to these things get more "marketing" done than sending ONE or TWO.

Still not buying.

.

I admit ignorance as to the details of how Matrix conducts their day to day business. But even if they only three guys with secure access to servers and knowhow to get distributable binaries out you ONE, don't send ALL THREE to a show AT THE SAME TIME, and TWO, you ensure that at least one or two people OTHER THAN than those three know enough about the company and its products to be able to market the firm.

Sounds like you're being an apologist for what amounts to the manifestation of an internal management problem. Bottom line, there is NO real justification for essentially shutting down company's ability to distribute product for a week for a mere trade show. It defies logic. But then again, as I've said before, I guess i just live in a completely different world than these people.

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

2) My panties are not in a wad.

ORIGINAL: byron13

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

2) My panties are not in a wad.

So you do wear panties, then? [;)]

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

I admit ignorance as to the details of how Matrix conducts their day to day business. But even if they only three guys with secure access to servers and knowhow to get distributable binaries out you ONE, don't send ALL THREE to a show AT THE SAME TIME, and TWO, you ensure that at least one or two people OTHER THAN than those three know enough about the company and its products to be able to market the firm.

Sounds like you're being an apologist for what amounts to the manifestation of an internal management problem. Bottom line, there is NO real justification for essentially shutting down company's ability to distribute product for a week for a mere trade show. It defies logic. But then again, as I've said before, I guess i just live in a completely different world than these people.

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
Not sure what your basis of fact here is. EA-Sports, Microsoft, Legend Entertainiment, etc have put out very complex titles that don't cost as much as WitP does. They all have marketing staffs and are organized along the lines of a standard software firm. Just because a firm is organized more along traditional business lines, does not in any way mean it will automatically charge more for its products. In fact, it is just as likely they could charge LESS as their resources are better fitted to the operational requirements of the enterprise. I work for a firm of roughly 50 people. We have no "QC department", no dedicated Customer Support group, no Finance Department, no Purchasing Department or anything else. What we DO have is a marketing chairman, a single salesman, two marketing assistants, and about a half dozen senior project managers and few junior/assistant managers, one R&D guy (me) along with about 35 developers/engineers (techies of various levels and skill sets). The marketing guys and one project manager are the guys that go to the shows along with whatever techie is on the least critical path. Occassionally one of the three partners MIGHT go to one. When I first started we had 18 people. Three partners, two project managers, and 13 developers. We still went to trade shows, but even then, never took more than one techie.

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Okay, Okay.. I'll admit it... I'm a Homer 1st Class, with 6 red chevrons on my right sleeve.. You will notice I did not say Gold chevrons, because I have not had a perfect service record. [8|]

ORIGINAL: khelvan

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
Not sure what your basis of fact here is. EA-Sports, Microsoft, Legend Entertainiment, etc have put out very complex titles that don't cost as much as WitP does. They all have marketing staffs and are organized along the lines of a standard software firm. Just because a firm is organized more along traditional business lines, does not in any way mean it will automatically charge more for its products. In fact, it is just as likely they could charge LESS as their resources are better fitted to the operational requirements of the enterprise. I work for a firm of roughly 50 people. We have no "QC department", no dedicated Customer Support group, no Finance Department, no Purchasing Department or anything else. What we DO have is a marketing chairman, a single salesman, two marketing assistants, and about a half dozen senior project managers and few junior/assistant managers, one R&D guy (me) along with about 35 developers/engineers (techies of various levels and skill sets). The marketing guys and one project manager are the guys that go to the shows along with whatever techie is on the least critical path. Occassionally one of the three partners MIGHT go to one. When I first started we had 18 people. Three partners, two project managers, and 13 developers. We still went to trade shows, but even then, never took more than one techie.

Comparing the computer game industry to mainstream software development is a faulty analogy. The computer game industry is at its heart much more akin to the entertainment industry, such as motion pictures or to a lesser extent the music industry. Software development is a tool for the game industry, not the end result. As someone in the software development business you don't have the same frame of reference so your evaluation of Matrix/2by3 will be way off.

EA, Microsoft, Legend, these are to computer gaming as 20th Century Fox is to motion pictures. Big budgets, big projects, mass market appeal. Matrix/2by3 are like the publisher and studio for small documentary films. To compare them is fallacious at best.

Raising the awareness level for Matrix products is complex, due to the nature of the buyer. Simply hiring a pretty woman to sit in the booth and attract pimply-faced teenagers may work for a developer of mainstream RTS or FPS games, but Matrix's market is too savvy for that. I bought over $100 worth of software at GenCon from Matrix because I was turned on by small, ugly looking unit graphics on a big screen with a knowledgeable Matrix employee there to stoke the grognard fire, not by seeing huge mammary glands. Had I not seen Matrix's booth at GenCon, I may very well have never had the fortune to find out about WitP.

I don't mean this as condescending, but if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you study the business model of the company you are talking about, within the context of the industry, before making critical comments. Matrix and 2by3 seem to be doing remarkable jobs in a very tough industry reaching a niche market where it is difficult for companies to survive. I have worked in both mainstream software development and the computer game industries, and I have an MBA, so feel free to accept what I say, not accept it, or better yet do some more research before making such blanket statements.

Cheers,

-khel

I was reluctant to say anything about the patch for fear of this kind of reaction, and I guess I could have said less, but I prefer to be up front with people about what's going on once we know the story. I also want to say that I'm totally supportive of Matrix going to the German show as it's only by going to these kinds of shows that we can hope to grow computer wargaming (and Matrix) so we can sell more copies of our games and be able to continue making computer wargames. Germany is a big computer wargame market (used to be second to the US back in the mid/late nineties) so it deserves to be marketed to, and with our games, it takes someone that knows the products well to be able to show them off well. So although I'm sorry the patch was delayed by this bad timing, the show is something that ultimately is beneficial to anyone that wants a continuing stream of computer wargame products. On the plus side, keep in mind that the patch is continuing to be tested so it will likely be better given the extra test time.

By the way, 20 people is a ton. It took SSI 4+ years and around 30 products to reach 20 employees.

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

ORIGINAL: khelvan

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
Not sure what your basis of fact here is. EA-Sports, Microsoft, Legend Entertainiment, etc have put out very complex titles that don't cost as much as WitP does. They all have marketing staffs and are organized along the lines of a standard software firm. Just because a firm is organized more along traditional business lines, does not in any way mean it will automatically charge more for its products. In fact, it is just as likely they could charge LESS as their resources are better fitted to the operational requirements of the enterprise. I work for a firm of roughly 50 people. We have no "QC department", no dedicated Customer Support group, no Finance Department, no Purchasing Department or anything else. What we DO have is a marketing chairman, a single salesman, two marketing assistants, and about a half dozen senior project managers and few junior/assistant managers, one R&D guy (me) along with about 35 developers/engineers (techies of various levels and skill sets). The marketing guys and one project manager are the guys that go to the shows along with whatever techie is on the least critical path. Occassionally one of the three partners MIGHT go to one. When I first started we had 18 people. Three partners, two project managers, and 13 developers. We still went to trade shows, but even then, never took more than one techie.

Comparing the computer game industry to mainstream software development is a faulty analogy. The computer game industry is at its heart much more akin to the entertainment industry, such as motion pictures or to a lesser extent the music industry. Software development is a tool for the game industry, not the end result. As someone in the software development business you don't have the same frame of reference so your evaluation of Matrix/2by3 will be way off.

EA, Microsoft, Legend, these are to computer gaming as 20th Century Fox is to motion pictures. Big budgets, big projects, mass market appeal. Matrix/2by3 are like the publisher and studio for small documentary films. To compare them is fallacious at best.

Raising the awareness level for Matrix products is complex, due to the nature of the buyer. Simply hiring a pretty woman to sit in the booth and attract pimply-faced teenagers may work for a developer of mainstream RTS or FPS games, but Matrix's market is too savvy for that. I bought over $100 worth of software at GenCon from Matrix because I was turned on by small, ugly looking unit graphics on a big screen with a knowledgeable Matrix employee there to stoke the grognard fire, not by seeing huge mammary glands. Had I not seen Matrix's booth at GenCon, I may very well have never had the fortune to find out about WitP.

I don't mean this as condescending, but if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you study the business model of the company you are talking about, within the context of the industry, before making critical comments. Matrix and 2by3 seem to be doing remarkable jobs in a very tough industry reaching a niche market where it is difficult for companies to survive. I have worked in both mainstream software development and the computer game industries, and I have an MBA, so feel free to accept what I say, not accept it, or better yet do some more research before making such blanket statements.

Cheers,

-khel

Again, I don't give a DAMN if Matrix is just THREE people. YOu don't send ALL THREE to trade show with distributable product ready to go needing only installation bundling done.... AGain, HOW MANY does it REALLY take at a trade show to man the booth and maybe take in a seminar or two???? The whole damned critical mass of the company???

Still not buying....

ORIGINAL: Knavey

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

ORIGINAL: khelvan



Comparing the computer game industry to mainstream software development is a faulty analogy. The computer game industry is at its heart much more akin to the entertainment industry, such as motion pictures or to a lesser extent the music industry. Software development is a tool for the game industry, not the end result. As someone in the software development business you don't have the same frame of reference so your evaluation of Matrix/2by3 will be way off.

EA, Microsoft, Legend, these are to computer gaming as 20th Century Fox is to motion pictures. Big budgets, big projects, mass market appeal. Matrix/2by3 are like the publisher and studio for small documentary films. To compare them is fallacious at best.

Raising the awareness level for Matrix products is complex, due to the nature of the buyer. Simply hiring a pretty woman to sit in the booth and attract pimply-faced teenagers may work for a developer of mainstream RTS or FPS games, but Matrix's market is too savvy for that. I bought over $100 worth of software at GenCon from Matrix because I was turned on by small, ugly looking unit graphics on a big screen with a knowledgeable Matrix employee there to stoke the grognard fire, not by seeing huge mammary glands. Had I not seen Matrix's booth at GenCon, I may very well have never had the fortune to find out about WitP.

I don't mean this as condescending, but if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you study the business model of the company you are talking about, within the context of the industry, before making critical comments. Matrix and 2by3 seem to be doing remarkable jobs in a very tough industry reaching a niche market where it is difficult for companies to survive. I have worked in both mainstream software development and the computer game industries, and I have an MBA, so feel free to accept what I say, not accept it, or better yet do some more research before making such blanket statements.

Cheers,

-khel

Again, I don't give a DAMN if Matrix is just THREE people. YOu don't send ALL THREE to trade show with distributable product ready to go needing only installation bundling done.... AGain, HOW MANY does it REALLY take at a trade show to man the booth and maybe take in a seminar or two???? The whole damned critical mass of the company???

Still not buying....

Zoomie,

Get over it. Yer bitchin' isn't going to get the patch here any sooner and just because you would do it one way, doesn't make it the right way.

Go play a turn or something. The patch will come soon enough.

Again, I don't give a DAMN if Matrix is just THREE people. You don't send ALL THREE to trade show with distributable product ready to go needing only installation bundling done