Matrix Games Forums

Hello...

This was not our intent, so I guess that makes it a bug. Fixed. You should not face so many guns, if playing with the next patch.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX

Hello, all--

This happened to me in Scenario 15, latest version (1.4).

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

This was not our intent, so I guess that makes it a bug. Fixed. You should not face so many guns, if playing with the next patch.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX

Hello, all--

This happened to me in Scenario 15, latest version (1.4).

[&o][&o][&o][&o]

ORIGINAL: Gem35

neat-o you got 3 of his carriers [&o]

I got a lot more than that--here's the top of the sunk ships list. Sadly, the majority were lost due to AI idiocy I'm seriously considering playing both sides next time (If two of my multiple personalities can find the time [:D] There was one truly epic battle, though. Lexington and Saratoga were near Noumea, and Enterprise and Hornet were coming to join them. Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu raided PM from the south, and lost about 20 planes. I determined that by steaming flat out for three days, my four CVs could rendezvous and catch them just as they were crossing back into the Coral Sea, close enough to use the Devastators. Also, the Yorktown had a squadron of Marine Dauntlesses she was transporting to Noumea. This was in May 42, so the Zero bonus had just reached zero (ha, ha). I figured "At this stage of the war, it doesn't get any better than this."

The two TFs made rendezvous, and also refueled from an oiler that was luckily in the area. But there weren't enough op points left to refuel Saratoga; she was down to about 2000 miles' fuel at cruise. On the next turn, both TFs reacted to the Japanese and ended up at a range of two, in the same hex. The US strike went in first, mostly coordinated. The main wave badly damaged Hiryu and Akagi, with only light damage to Kaga and Soryu. I thought, "Great, they'll probably sink whatever CVs I have left with their second strike." But then a straggling TBD squadron slipped past the Japanese CAP and scored two hits on Kaga, knocking her out. Meanwhile, the perfectly coordinated Japanese strike hit Lex and Sara; Lex was sunk; Sara, Chicago, and Houston were badly damaged. Japanese afternoon strike hit Enterprise and Yorktown, but did only 13 sys and minor flooding to Yorktown. Sara made for Espiritu, the nearest friendly port; she was flooding progressively; also, she had just about enough fuel to make it; I didn't want to slow down to refuel. She just barely made Espiritu before she sank; she had 9 miles' worth of fuel on board when she dropped anchor. Talk about your close things. Follow-up strikes from Enterprise and Yorktown mopped up the Japanese.

hmm, you managed to lose Lady Lex...[:(][:(]




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Thanks, Mike. We appreciate your efforts.

To all: my comment was not necessarily targetting Matrix or 2by3. It was a comment from a long time board game wargamer who has often found computer wargames to fudge too far. I realize that it is quite difficult to write a decent AI, and 2by3 does better than the vast majority of gaming programmers (you may recall that I have written a couple of posts praising the AI in this game - how many others have done so?). This situation showed how that fudging can get out of hand. They're fixing it. Cool.

ORIGINAL: Gem35

hmm, you managed to lose Lady Lex...[:(][:(]




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Let's see--one US CV sunk, one heavily damaged, and one lightly damaged and two CAs heavily damaged, against four Japanese CVs sunk, in May '42. Exactly how is that not a decisive US victory?

Exactly how is that not a decisive US victory?

I never said it wasn't decisive, well done to be sure. I was just commenting on my avatar being sunk...[&o]

Cannot resist adding an extract from a combat report to this thread.

Playing against the AI, 1945 campaign, 31 March 1945.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Coastal Guns at Aparri, 46,49, firing at TF 1031
TF 1031 troops unloading over beach at Aparri, 46,49


588 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
LST LST-483, Shell hits 4
DD Converse, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Drayton, Shell hits 2, on fire
LST LST-479, Shell hits 1
DD Braine, Shell hits 1
LST LST-477, Shell hits 4
LST LST-473, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Charles Ausburne, Shell hits 2
LST LST-467
DMS Southard
AP Hercules, Shell hits 1
DD Edwards, Shell hits 1
DD Foote

Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
1062 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many coastal guns would it have taken to fire 588 shots?

And why can they not aim straight?

Hi, If they had a rate of fire of 1 shot per hour it would be around 74 guns. (each phase is 8 hours long) 2 shots per hour 37 guns 3 shots per hour 25 guns 4 shots per hour 18 guns.

When you look at this way the guns scored 19 hits. or 1 out of every 31 shots fired or 2.375 hits per hour zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The number of game flaws revealed by your experience is remarkable. I was considering buying WitP (I'm playing UV now) but this type of experience completely undermines the integrity of the game. Individually they are perhaps minor bugs but collectively they seem pretty inexcusable.

1) In insane TOE for a CD unit -- obviously this could be a database foul up but still -- nobody saw this in play testing?
2) Where are the guns that smashed your ships? This unit has no guns (and even if they do then they are 4.7" not 5.5")! Another database foul up?
3) Where are the 5.5" guns? Another database foul up.
4) The unit supplies are horrendous yet they obviously got as many reloads as needed -- we are talking about a lot of shells for a lot of guns -- where are they?. AI balance cheating (if so then this crosses way over the line)?
5) Not sure of the details of this but it seems that your invasion tf leader should have aborted the landing when he started to take such massive fire such that you could reconsider your next move after only losing a few ships (although then you wouldn't have found all of these game flaws.) I can't really think of a USN commander being quite this suicidal/aggressive/crazy.
6) Given that your transports did get massacred -- your troop casualties would have been horrendous IMHO -- more than 10% -- this also seems to be a complaint about UV -- that so little damage is done to cargo and troops even when ships take massive damage.
7) Another oddity (or flaw) -- why is the Japanese base unit shown have Shortlands as its next objective (isn't this in Japanese hands?)

I've seen alot of excuses made for AI game balance but if that is what this is all about then I'll pass on this game. I used to play PacWar and had high hopes for this game -- hopefully they will address this thread and fix these problems -- I'll be watching. Thanks for the information and my condolences on the invasion.

Bryan

has anyone seen this in a pbem game? Sounds like another reason to avoid the AI.

588 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

That number is an *abstraction*, not the actual number of guns shooting. The lower it is, the better you have suppressed the beach that you are landing on. Try sending just ak's in with nothing else, you'll see numbers in the 10,000 range.

"Ive seen alot of excuses made for AI game balance but if that is what this is all about then I'll pass on this game. I used to play PacWar and had high hopes for this game -- hopefully they will address this thread and fix these problems -- I'll be watching. Thanks for the information and my condolences on the invasion. "

Bryan, you may have noticed Mike Wood posting that this was an unforseen result of the programming and that they intend to fix this in an upcoming patch. It's not enough reason to avoid the game, IMO.

those 586 shots fired is probably from a beach that was not properly shelled, bombed long enough before the assault.try softening it up for a month and see how many guns fire back at your landing forces. As for our disgruntled poster, all I can say is you are missing out on a fantastic game, the old adage 'don't knock it till ya try it' works here.