Matrix Games Forums

Aircraft histories coming along fine. Interesting that ADG seem to have taken a couple of ...ahem... liberties when assembling the PiF counter mix.

Are you talking about the old PiF rulebook ? I seem to remember that there were charts at the end of the booklet showing some informations about the planes. There was also aircraft histories in it ? I do not have mine handy to look inside it.

What liberties are you talking about ? *curious*

Cheers !

Patrice

ORIGINAL: mlees

This database could get quite extensive, especially if the histories of each military formation/ship had it's own entry. Encyclopedia sized database. Several hundred Megs of text. That would take a long time to collect and edit.

[8|] You would have to give credit to ALL to your sources and get perrmission to use the information from the sources to avoid copyright infringement. [8|]

Mziln,
Copyright is only an issue if I do wholesale cut and paste… which I am not doing. I am certainly using PiF reference tables but since ADG/Matrix is the beneficiary of the work I don’t see a problem there. I certainly don't have to cite EVERY reference I find on the web unless they are presenting unique research which I copy into my own work


Patrice,
Some anomalies in the air units are:
Belgium CR-42 Bis – only 24 of these lightly armed biplanes were bought from Italy . How can they be considered an air unit compared to the 200+ aircraft which make up other air units? Maybe there was local production in Belgium? Still checking

Bulgarian DAR10F – according to http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/ ... es/dar.htm this aircraft wasn’t in production until 1945 but PiF has it entering in 1938. Maybe they mean the DAR-8?

These are just anomalies. They are interesting in themselves but they don’t mean that the game is flawed.

Patrice,
Some anomalies in the air units are:
Belgium CR-42 Bis – only 24 of these lightly armed biplanes were bought from Italy . How can they be considered an air unit compared to the 200+ aircraft which make up other air units? Maybe there was local production in Belgium? Still checking

Bulgarian DAR10F – according to http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/waf/ ... es/dar.htm this aircraft wasn’t in production until 1945 but PiF has it entering in 1938. Maybe they mean the DAR-8?

These are just anomalies. They are interesting in themselves but they don’t mean that the game is flawed.

Thanks [:D]
I'm happy you shared what you found.
I agree with you, this doesn't flaws the game, not at all. We just have to remember the time when all the FTR had the same silhouette and the same range on the counters [:D]. The PiF pretty representations were only there to make the game more fun & attractive, and to give it a better historical feel (which worked, for me).

Interesting what you found, especially for the DAR-10.
For the CR-42, maybe they put that name on the counter just to put something else than "Mixed" as they put on the Brazilian & Mexican ones. They could have written Gladiators too, but none would have been right. I'm not even sure that the Belgian Air Force in S/O 39 numbered 250 fighters [&:] [:D].

Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards

Problems with historical background info on units (apart from sources and copyright) will be:
-Land Units: putting together historical data about corps-, army sized formations because number, structure and TOE (of Divisions) changed alot. Esp. finding Data about Russian land Units will be fun
-Air Units: Consider all the Subtypes of Standard models (like ME 109, Spitfire...).
Regards

Here is my summary of the postings to date on Sound. I am still working on the animation and historical detail summaries.

This is still a work in progress and in no way should be considered a final design. I put this summary together to enable us to better understand where we are at the present. There is much work yet to be done. For example, there are over 60 different unit types in MWIF.

If I misunderstood any of your points, don't be shy. Tell me so I can correct my mistakes.
==========================
Sound
Optional

Both music and sound effects are optional that can be turned on and off at any time during a game. By default they start on, but as MWIF loads, the player is notified how he can turn them off. This is so a player with a less powerful computer system can speed up loading the program. When a player first starts MWIF, it is suggested that he review the game interface screen where he can set options to personalize what MWIF does and does not do.

While on that topic, let me add that MWIF has two sets of options: (1) optional rules for what is included in the simulation of WW II, and (2) game interface options. The former are set before a game begins and usually remain unchanged for the rest of that game. The later can be changed by the player at any time during the game, more or less depending on his mood.

Individual sound effects and music are pre-configured when the player first installs MWIF. At any time thereafter, the player can select a specific sound from a menu for some of the locations in the game sequence where sounds are generated (e.g., unit movement, unit disruption, unit destruction, bombs falling). This is not an elaborate system, but it provides for some personalization of the sound effects. Alternatively, the program can be configured to select sound effects randomly from the menu choices.

Music

Historical music can create atmosphere without being too time-consuming. It should give the player a different feeling for each nation and be educational as well, enabling the player to become familiar with different countries’ anthems and marches. National anthems are played for major events, a "national march" for victories, and a "national hymn" for defeats. Some examples are:
USA: Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa), March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa), Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder", Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh", Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber).
UK: Anthem: "God Save the King", March: "Rule Britannia", Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten)

Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.

Sound Effects

As units move or engage in combat, appropriate sounds are played. This also happens for certain screens. Sounds might be repeated somewhat more often than video, but worrying about too much repetition is important. In particular, every time a player clicks on a unit (to select the unit, inspect the stack, move, or fight), a simple "click" sound is produced rather than something more distinctive, which would quickly become annoying.

Screens
Industrial clanging for the production screen,
Tropical jungle sounds when examining a hex stack in Burma.

Movement
Diesel rumbling or the noise of the tracks when tanks move,
Noise of trucks when motorized units move,
Noise of boots when leg troops move,
Inline or radial engine noise for aircraft maneuvering,
Train toots for movement by rail

Combat
Varies depending on the kind of attacking and defending units/weapons and combat result
Explosion sound when a unit is attacked and destroyed,
Stukas diving when flying ground strike missions
Stuka sirens
Bombs whistling
Artillery fire
Noise of the relevant type of gun AA fires, when ART bombs, etc...
Parachutes opening on an airborne assault.
Words "Go, go, go" when paratroopers jump,
Splash

Looks good. Again, itis really important to make clear early on to the player how to turn these options on or off in the middle of the game so that the player doesn't feel like he or she is trapped if the sound effects are all turned on and his or her family want to have some peace and quiet right in the middle of an exciting turn.

ORIGINAL: rtamesis

Looks good. Again, itis really important to make clear early on to the player how to turn these options on or off in the middle of the game so that the player doesn't feel like he or she is trapped if the sound effects are all turned on and his or her family want to have some peace and quiet right in the middle of an exciting turn.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some games hide this stuff like it was buried treasure. I'll put it on the top menu and label it options (or something equally obvious).

ORIGINAL: wosung

Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards

I don't deny that Belgium is entitled to an air unit. My point was that only 24 of those aircraft were the CR-42Bis and the rest were"...Renards, Hurricanes, Gladiators and Fairey Foxes and Battles" ref: http://www.scramble.nl/be.htm. It just seems unusual for this country to be represented by an Italian made air unit.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.

How about including a background music setting where MWiF just continually (randomly) cycles through all of the mp3 files in a particular (and quite seperate) directory. These would be full length pieces rather than sound bites. Just because I'm playing as Japan shouldn't prevent me from hearing Ride of the Valkyries

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Music can be repeated somewhat more often than videos before it gets boring, but the player has a couple of other options for avoiding too much repetition. Each country has its own folder of MP3's to which the players can add their own selections. Also, MWIF does not require a full screen display, so a player can select his own music to be playing in the background during a game.

How about including a background music setting where MWiF just continually (randomly) cycles through all of the mp3 files in a particular (and quite seperate) directory. These would be full length pieces rather than sound bites. Just because I'm playing as Japan shouldn't prevent me from hearing Ride of the Valkyries

Ok. I'll go with something that can be customized by the player. However, it will be a very simple design, not some elaborate attempt to achieve glory.

how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Belgian Airforce (Aéronautique militaire) in 1940:

234 aircraft altogether (180 operational) divided in 3 regiments: 1st observation and armycoop. (62 sevicable planes), 2nd fighter (79 servicable planes) , 3rd recon and bombing (41 servicable planes).

Source Andrew Mollow: The armned forces of WW2: Uniforms, Insignia & organisation, London 2001.
Regards


I don't deny that Belgium is entitled to an air unit. My point was that only 24 of those aircraft were the CR-42Bis and the rest were"...Renards, Hurricanes, Gladiators and Fairey Foxes and Battles" ref: http://www.scramble.nl/be.htm. It just seems unusual for this country to be represented by an Italian made air unit.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

No critique at all. Just Information.
Regards

how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.

Great, I love this !
Kind of emoticons in the latest MSN Messenger [:D]

ORIGINAL: stretch

how about a sound effect of a player taking the dice and throwing them at the wall while yelling an obscentity. Followed by the beer fridge door opening and closing, and then a bottle cap being removed. That would pretty much make it sound like my last game.

This could be done using any wave or mp3 player. Then you could play what you wanted.

I like the music style of the Operational Art of War series. The music is appropriately "wargamey" and dramatic, adding to the experience. There are not many tracks but (for me anyway) they don’t become annoying because one is usually concentrating on one's moves and not really on the music. Every now and again, I pause and think "Yeah! Nicely martial” as I envelop Kharkov/drive through the Ardennes/hang on at Anzio etc". If the music does get annoying and I turn it off, it’s usually not long before I miss the extra atmosphere and crank it up again.

That said, I would include as much music as possible. Using a lot of period music with some original stuff would probably be a good bang-for-buck compromise. Maybe not just “big picture” anthems too, but also a bit of “trench entertainment” squeeze-box/harmonica/ukulele style ditties…

(To the melody of the “Colonel Bogey March”)
“Hitler, he’s only got one ball,
Göring, has two but very small,
Himmler has something sim’lar,
But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all.”

Playtesting will find the right level of operational/tactical sound effects. Stuff like droning heavy bombers, shrieking diving Stukas, rumbling armour, that “whoop whoop” naval horn noise etc seem appropriate. (How do you do the sound of Italian Frogmen? Japanese minisubs? Hmmm. DFS 230 gliders landing on Eben Emael? Ok, the last one was a joke).

Cheers, Neilster

Here is my summary of the posting to date on historical detail. I am still working on the animation summary.

This is still a work in progress and in no way should be considered a final design. I put this summary together to enable us to better understand where we are at the present. There is much work yet to be done.

If I misunderstood any of your points, don't be shy. Tell me, so I can correct my mistakes.
==========================
Historical Detail

[Copyright is always a concern when dealing with these matters.]

WW II Look and Feel

MWIF strives for a WWII look and feel, that is slightly different depending on which major power the player controls (Germany, Italy, Japan, the USA, the Commonwealth, the USSR, France, and China). The goal is to draw the player into the game and let them experience the atmosphere of the world of the late 1930's and early 1940's. At times it should be luxurious and at others grainy and down to earth. After all, it is primarily the history of WW II that attracts players to this game.

To achieve this goal of look and feel, MWIF provides images from the period, both military and civilian. This includes photographs, video, newspapers, and other visuals that are memorable from the era. These images appear not only in the opening screens but also encompass overall design of the windows and forms used to present information during game play. More detailed textual descriptions, with additional images, are available upon request by the player. For example, there are write ups on the famous soldiers and statesmen for each of the major powers.

Optional

The vast majority of historical details appear only when requested by the player, either indirectly by setting an option, or by direct request. They do not automatically appear unless the player has turned on the option for that to happen. These can be set when a game begins and changed using a simple pull down menu during a game.

Country information

MWIF includes a short history and important dates for each country, including minor countries that were important during WW II. This follows in the footsteps of Australian Design Group’s standard procedure to provide player notes for each scenario. Expanding on that concept, MWIF in some cases provides much more information on the background of the countries so the player can understand their recent past at the time of WWII and why they favored the Axis or Allied side. For example, here is a description for Algeria.

June 12, 1830 : France invades Algeria with 34,000 soldiers and occupies Algiers after a three-week campaign. France used the failure of the blockade as a reason for a military expedition against Algiers.

1834 : France annexed the occupied areas of Algeria, which had an estimated Muslim population of about 3 million, as a colony. Colonial administration in the occupied areas (the so-called régime du sabre, government of the sword) was placed under a governor general, a high-ranking army officer invested with civil and military jurisdiction, who was responsible to the minister of war.

1881 : France invaded Tunisia, claiming that Tunisian troops had crossed the border to Algeria, France's main colony in Northern Africa. Italy, also interested in Tunisia, protested, but did not risk a war with France.
[The Wikipedia is a good source for this.]

Unit information

When the player selects a unit, a large panel appears that provides historical details about the unit. This may include photographs, text, and a short description on the history of the unit during the war. It can be modified by the players so they can exchange files on units (or someone could create a library of same) which could be used to replace the ones that come with MWIF. Not every unit name appearing in MWIF has an historical counterpart. All the historical unit information is also accessible from an in-game browse function that lets the player read about every unit in the game.

Textual information can include:
∙ A short description of the unit’s creation and composition.
∙ Numbers of men and machines with descriptions of the later’s capabilities.
∙ Equipment upgrades, replacements, TOE, and commanders.
∙ Historical engagements, campaigns, victories, and defeats.
∙ MWIF game (current and previous) engagements, campaigns, victories, and defeats.

Visual images vary but can include:
∙ Plate drawings of the uniform or primary vehicle.
∙ For some ships, side color views of the ships and blueprints for the standard 3 engineering views (top, side, and end on).
∙ Unit patches and insignias.

Here is an example for the Sopwith Camel. It gives information about the unit for MWIF “this is one of 'x' Sopwith Camels in the game” and from its actual history “ The Sopwith Camel entered service in May 1917 and was armed with twin Vickers machine guns. It was a bastard of a plane to fly and the average life expectancy of an English pilot was little more than two weeks. It has been claimed that the Sopwith Camel was responsible for shooting down 1,294 enemy planes during the war. “

While the entries provided with MWIF are merely meant to spotlight some units without being exhaustive, the players can add to the database that comes with the game. This database could get quite extensive, especially if each military formation/ship has it's own detailed entry.

Map information

MWIF permits the player to access historical information on some of the important locations on the map as well. This primarily means major battles fought or events that happened at a particular location. The players can modify/augment this information.

Time line

MWiF contains is a WWII time line that can be filtered by theater of operations. For example, the European TOO contains the following:

1939
Sep/Oct Germany invades Poland, captures Warsaw, and Poland surrenders.
Nov/Dec USSR invades Finland.

1940
Jan/Feb Finland surrenders to USSR.
Mar/Apr Germany invades Denmark, Denmark surrenders, Germany invades Norway, captures Oslo, and Norway surrenders.
May/Jun Allies land at Narvik, Norway and later withdraw troops from Norway.
Germany invades Netherlands, Belgium, France, and captures Antwerp and Paris.

MWIF maintains two parallel time lines that show the actual history versus the game's history. Each turn the player can view the historical events that happened. For example, this enables the player to compare his capture of Paris against the historical date. When capitals or other major cities are captured or liberated, text descriptions are displayed about those events. The players can add to this database.

In addition to the time line, MWIF provides a broad overview of the war with paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of important aspects of the war (e.g., the Battle of the Atlantic).

this has been brought up elsewhere, but im not sure who to credit, so plz forgive me.

How about a button that lets you view your nations historical progress at the time? Obviously not applicable to certain things (Sea Lion and Japan-Russia War come to mind), but would still be a neat feature and probably not terribly hard to implement.

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_bunnyy
this has been brought up elsewhere, but im not sure who to credit, so plz forgive me.

How about a button that lets you view your nations historical progress at the time? Obviously not applicable to certain things (Sea Lion and Japan-Russia War come to mind), but would still be a neat feature and probably not terribly hard to implement.

I think the last 2 paragraphs of my summation cover what you are suggesting. Or is there more to your idea that I am missing?

MWIF maintains two parallel time lines that show the actual history versus the game's history. Each turn the player can view the historical events that happened. For example, this enables the player to compare his capture of Paris against the historical date. When capitals or other major cities are captured or liberated, text descriptions are displayed about those events. The players can add to this database.

In addition to the time line, MWIF provides a broad overview of the war with paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of important aspects of the war (e.g., the Battle of the Atlantic).