Haig tactics win again!!!

[Riun T]

I've been reading your posts on this Haig topic since they started and REALLY hope that your just gesting and ribbing because IMHO as being a real combat infantry soldier, That you are nothing more than some WAR movie, combat bedazzled nerdy school kid whom only just read some stuff on Haig because u had to put some silly little school report together and when you blasphamy comments from other vets who have really had to go threw things like meeting and consoaling the families of close comrades that fell with them and had to live on after any officers decision. My point being you definately can be a real soldier or anyone old enough to determine any real life threatening exploits in your life besides this little game forum. YOU lossed to gunny and he isn't even a troop either and your eg. of the french vs the germans for an comparison was schoolkid too. You had the same fog and low vis as you complained was used against you before by Kopraali V and you did'nt tell us weither you delayed beyond turn 21 and how many units you managed to return to the exit hexes after turn 21 which is the real mission of a delay.
I won't even get into how it makes you look when you get into petty little quibbles with boneified studious vets like Flashfyre and M4 Bob with such watery unsubstantuated,partial facts and data. You've never had to meet your best buddys parents at the airport with the return coffin PUNK.... RIO TANGO out. You remind me of VONROM anybody else remember that name?!!

[IBTyrone]

Riun, please don't discourage the man. He espouses a particular viewpoint--one that most of us may not necessarily agree with, but a valid viewpoint nonetheless. I've read most of his posts and I've never seen anything disparaging, cocky or meant as a putdown in any of his posts. Yes, he and Korpraali (another valued member of this community) had a misunderstanding, but I think they've worked it out.

If TokyoBoy using Haig tactics and sharing his viewpoint is how he enjoys the game, please let him do so. So long as his posts don't degenerate into personal attacks because others don't agree with his POV, let him have his fun. [:)]

[robot]

Well spoken tyrone. I dont personally use his style of play. But thats how i like to play and enjoy this game doing it my way. I worry more about losing my men then sending them in as human waves to suffer death and destruction. Thats why some time a single battle inmy long campaigns may take 2 to 3 days to complete becuase im always sitting and thinking on ways to advance and still not put my men in harms way. But I dont mind the time it takes because thats all I have anymore is time.

[Riun T]

I'm sorry guys but it just urks me when ANYBODY spouts off with an implied { yeh I know what it was like in the trench or in my case bunkered foxhole right there beside ya buddy} active partisipants knowledge when they've read a couple of books and seen a few documentries and overall have a minimal rudimentry knowledge base to try and chum up so to speak with us older and not nessisarily wiser members, but not having to pay the real dues. yes I understand this is only a games forum but it was'nt me getting the warning from gunny to get off the political aspects the Follies of armour post had turned toward[:'(] Just get off the spouting on cool MR. Haig cause he was an arystocratic pompous goof IMHO who should have had to go and appoligize to all the families of the men he got killed and maimed. RT

[IBTyrone]

ORIGINAL: robot

Well spoken tyrone. I dont personally use his style of play.

I don't think many of us do. His perspective is a refreshing breath of fresh air in a game that has seen it's fair share of adherents come and go. I'm not 100% sure myself whether he is serious or not with his Haig tactics, but I've personally taken it to be tongue-in-cheek from the beginning. TBT is a smart boy and I think he's just messing with the rest of us.

ORIGINAL: robot
But thats how i like to play and enjoy this game doing it my way. I worry more about losing my men then sending them in as human waves to suffer death and destruction. Thats why some time a single battle inmy long campaigns may take 2 to 3 days to complete becuase im always sitting and thinking on ways to advance and still not put my men in harms way. But I dont mind the time it takes because thats all I have anymore is time.

Robot, I appreciate the time you put into your play and the thought you put into your AARs. Your devotion to your men is apparent in what you write. When things go badly, you are not afraid to own up to your mistakes. Again, a refreshing departure from the typical, "I crushed the AI yet again" AARs that are usually out there. Keep up the good work and take all the time you need!

[IBTyrone]

ORIGINAL: Riun T

I'm sorry guys but it just urks me when ANYBODY spouts off with an implied { yeh I know what it was like in the trench or in my case bunkered foxhole right there beside ya buddy} active partisipants knowledge when they've read a couple of books and seen a few documentries and overall have a minimal rudimentry knowledge base to try and chum up so to speak with us older and not nessisarily wiser members, but not having to pay the real dues. yes I understand this is only a games forum but it was'nt me getting the warning from gunny to get off the political aspects the post had turned toward[:'(] Just get off the spouting on cool MR. Haig cause he was an arystocratic pompous goof IMHO who should have had to go and appoligize to all the families of the men he got killed and maimed. RT

Good point, Riun. Celebrating casualties in reality is not right, period. War is hell, plain and simple. However, if we all believed that literally, none of us, including you or I, would be playing this game.

Put TBT's viewpoint into context. His experience with Haig tactics is probably exclusively limited to this game. Against the AI. You do the math. I don't think he is by any means intentionally attempting to disparage anyone who has served or suffered loss because of war. He is espousing a particular tactic used in conjunction with this game. He needs to be careful when applying lessons learned from playing the game using Haig tactics to the real world. If he oversteps his bounds, then you are justified in letting him know. Just don't thrash him too hard in the process, please. [;)]

[PimpYourAFV]

Ruin T, I had trouble understanding your post but will try to make an appropriate response for you. [:)]

I've learned about WW1 from reading many books including Guderian's Panzer book, The Guns of August, Vimy Ridge, and many others I can't recall the titles of. I've also read personal accounts and talked to relatives of WW1 veterans who told me Haig was the hero of the great war.

Back to topic, after reading Guderian's book, he explained how easy it would have been for the Germans to have defeated the tanks by simply moving up their artillery and using direct fire to destroy them. Unfortunately for Germany, the German high command was too stubborn to adapt to the tanks and they did not issue antitank guns and the 13mm armor piercing machinegun rounds to all its regiments.

I do think tanks are cool, especially the old WW1 heavy tanks like the Char C (FMC) which can actually be bought at the start of the French long campaign for your core. Tanks are just overrated and players of this game tend to load up too much on them and misunderstand. The rifleman is the core of a good army. As for Haig, he saved Verdun and therefore France. To say Haig was a fool or whatever is no more logical than saying Montgomery or Rommel was a fool. These men were great leaders and should be celebrated.

As for trying to minimize your casualties, anyone can do that when you spend 5000+ points on 3 companies of infantry and 2 companies of tanks with overwhelming artillery hitting and suppressing all the AI units so the AI has no chance to get a shot off. I prefer to give the AI a 7x point advantage and fight toe to toe with the enemy units in a manly fashion out in an open field. You can see my pictures to know what a I mean. This is true war the way it was meant to be fought. An upfront shootout where everybody gets some. [8D]

[forgorin]

DIE!! DIE!! DIE!! Me wants to be seeing lots of DIE!! DIE!! DIE!!
Flame on. (cough, cough) Game on![8D]

[PimpYourAFV]

forgorin, your gaming attitude is admirable.

For anyone who missed it, here is the link to my picture story giving you an excellent lesson on Haig tactics. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1075631&mpage=1&key=&#1076241

[PimpYourAFV]

With the lack of intelligent rebuttals on this thread it must be true that all people on this forum have accepted Haig tactics into their lives. Be there any unbelievers yet present, come out of your closets and try your hand, though futile it surely be, at defending your reliance on popcorn. Tanks... ah such easy targets and what a lovely pop they do make upon being smitten! [:D]

[Mac67]

I am sorry TBT, but i have seen many intelligent rebuttals on this thread and others by the likes of Orzel Bialy, FlashfyreSP and others. While your style of playing SPWAW is both intresting and refreshing, your belief in Haig tatics is sadly disillusional, and your knowledge of military history does appear to be flawed. Prehaps your time would be better defending Haig the man, rather than his tatics? He was certainly demonised after WW1, I beleive rather unfairly. It is intresting to note that he spent his last years travelling throughout the British Empire, raising money for the veterans who had served under him, and helped to found the Royal British Legion which is still in existance today giving aid to ex-service members. It is not my intention to insult you, and I apologise if you feel i have, but some of your comments have a personal meaning to me, my Great-Grandfather was gassed on the Western Front, and died vomiting blood a few years after the end of the war. Let me assure you there was nothing "heroic" or "glorious" about his death.

[Goblin]

I must agree on this, TBT (I'm sorry)...

If Haig tactics worked against modern tactics, modern tactics would have died. The men that go into harms way either develop superior fighting tactics (which last), or they die (taking their tactics with them). Warfare will weed out the weak tactics, and, unfortunately, the men using them.


Goblin

[PimpYourAFV]

Mac67 and Goblin, its nice to see there are a couple of gentlemen left on the forum. Thanks for your input. Mac67, I totally agree that chemical warfare is a horrible thing and was deservingly outlawed.

[BulletMagnet]

I really getting tired of your offhand wisecracks Toyboy. I am a gentleman but I will not stand by and let you sling yor dribble without a appropriate response. Dont you have a chess game or something else better to do than to chat with all of us not smart enough to be under you divine light? Why dont you just play Riun and put your money where your mouth is? Whats that i hear? Crickets? Niceness will beget niceness you know. Tone down your arrogance and I will be civil.

[Mac67]

A few links for anyone interested in learning more about Haig...............

http://www.1914-1918.net/haig_bio.htm

http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/historian/h ... _haig.html

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-lea ... 1/haig.htm

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/haig.htm

I wonder if there has ever been a more controversial figure in the history of the British Army??
Back in 1998 there was a campaign by a English newspaper to have his statue removed from Whitehall, you can read about it here: -

http://www.aftermathww1.com/statue.asp

[PimpYourAFV]

Mac67, thanks for those links. I should have put them in the first post of this thread when I made it instead of the silly screenshot.

[Mac67]

My apologies BulletMagnet!! That last post was not supposed to be in reply to you, but to everone in general. I haven't quite figured this forum thingy out yet!!!

[BulletMagnet]

no need, I knew[:D]

[PimpYourAFV]

BulletMagnet, I will stay just long enough to give you a heart attack.

[Mau Fox]

ORIGINAL: Mac67

A few links for anyone interested in learning more about Haig.......

Hi Mac67, that's the correct approach to this "touchy" subject [;)]. I would like to contribute with this other link

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWhaig.htm

First we have to know the man and his background.

Personally I do think that Haig's tactics have been judged (condemned?[:'(]) by History itself.

But, indeed, Haig has been, and still is, one of the most controversial figures in World War I history.

Mau Fox. [;)]