Matrix Games Forums

Thanks Hard Sarge.

MJT

I will recheck my information when I get home (at work at the moment) and come back to you!

MJT

ORIGINAL: Reg

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Looking good, but please change RAF P-40-F kittyhawk II to Kittyhawk I or Kittyhawk III as your listed variant did not serve with the RAF during the war.

Cheers

MJT

ahhhh

hassles, the p40 F kittyhawk II was assigned to the RAF, 150 were shipped, most of them later were given back to the US, some to the French and most to the Russian

the P40 L was also named the Kittyhawk II, and can not be told apart, based on RAF numbers

but not to worry, I pulled the Kittyhawk II, it is no longer in the game, the RAF will get the Kittyhawk IV now

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
....almost every one wants to say something a little different

You're not wrong about everyone having an opinion. However in this case I had to butt in. I agree with you on the use of Kittyhawk IV but not for the reason that Langley cites.

The RAF did operate significant numbers of Kittyhawk IIs (I have a figure of 330) but mainly in the desert airforce period. No.3 Squadron RAAF operated the type for some months and only very reluctantly reverted back to the Kittyhawk III when the replacement pool dried up. No.450 Squadron never operated Kittyhawk IIs (except for the CO who managed to acquire one from 3 Sqn and refused to give it back). Reference: Desert Warriors by Banner Books. (An excellent and detailed read by the way).

By the time 1943 rolled around, most squadrons were operating Kittyhawk IV.

After a bit of checking it appears you are right. No3 sqaudron RAAF flew the Kittyhawk II for some months and the CO of 450 squadron RAAF also flew one. I have also seen a report that Billy Drake flew one. I still think that most kittyhawk II
Aircraft were sent to the USSR from what I have found so Far.

Good Call Reg.

It should be "Balkan Air Force", not "Balkin Air Force". Might as well get it right...

boy, you guys are ruff

thought I said that was a test screen of what I was trying to do ? oh well

never mind, the BAF is not in the Data base right now, we want to save the HQs for later, lots of little HARD coded stuff linked to them

to commemorate the second coming of the "balkin" complaint (I don't care that you're right, you just gotta accept that it's a HARD Sargeism) we are changing the name of the game.

The new name is "Balkin Hell, that was close"

In Australia, however, it will be sold as "Dude, where's my Kittyhawk"

I got a couple more, but these were my favourite two...

As of 17Aug43 no Kittyhawk IV was in service with an operational Sqn, only IIs/IIIs

Unit; Higher HQ; Status; Aircraft; Base

3 RAAF Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk II/III; ?Agnone, Sicily?
5 SAAF Sqn; 7 SAAF Wg (Tx'd to 239 Wg 8/43); Operational; Kittyhawk III; Pachino South?, Sicily
112 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Apr44)
250 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Jan44)
260 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (never flew Kittyhawk IV)
450 RAAF Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Oct43)

von Shagmeister

Thanks for the infomation von Shagmeister.

As I see it we can either ask Hard Sarge to change the kittyhawk IV to a Kittyhawk III Or ask him to add the Kittyhawk III to the start of this game if he can fit it in that is!

But before we do that can I ask if anyone has any more input on the Kittyhawk that maybe useful?

MJT

von Shagmeister


As of 17Aug43 no Kittyhawk IV was in service with an operational Sqn, only IIs/IIIs

Unit; Higher HQ; Status; Aircraft; Base

3 RAAF Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk II/III; ?Agnone, Sicily?
5 SAAF Sqn; 7 SAAF Wg (Tx'd to 239 Wg 8/43); Operational; Kittyhawk III; Pachino South?, Sicily
112 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Apr44)
250 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Jan44)
260 Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (never flew Kittyhawk IV)
450 RAAF Sqn; 239 Wg; Operational; Kittyhawk III; Agnone, Sicily (rx'd 1st Kittyhawk IV Oct43)

von Shagmeister


my only hassle is

192 III's were sent to the English starting late 1942 (42 were given to the RAAF, don't know if those come from the 192 or are extra)

that pretty much is saying no wasteage, no losses for close to a year ?

I can give you the III, at start, no replacements, as the IV's build up, the player can upgrade to them

but it is not a major production plane, the GB is only got to get around 450 of them

my only hassle is

192 III's were sent to the English starting late 1942 (42 were given to the RAAF, don't know if those come from the 192 or are extra)

that pretty much is saying no wasteage, no losses for close to a year ?

I can give you the III, at start, no replacements, as the IV's build up, the player can upgrade to them

but it is not a major production plane, the GB is only got to get around 450 of them

Give them the Kittyhawk III (or II) at start because it's what they were actually flying. I don't have a problem with in being non-produceable. Production was probably ramping up for the IV by this time and as you say player can upgrade when he has enough new a/c.

okay

the AF's they are suppost to be based at are not in the game (anyone have pics/drawings of AF locs ?)

and as they were set to be reinforcements instead of at start units, I have places them back in NA

the player can use them to support the Balt's or move them to Sicily as they see fit

(had to move them to at start, to be sure they pull there plane type, it does not always work with reinforcements)

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
yes, it is another one of those, what if planes

But they were using it at the time, so I say stick it in!

the Whirlwind I, is rated at 360 clean, once that added the support of bombs and added the weight in, it really took a beating

if any one has more info on the 43 verison, please post, all my books seem to agree on all the info listed (in fact they so close, they all look to be copied from each other)

(bomb load seems awful light to be doing that much slow down to the plane)

Indeed, one squadron aircraft tested clean in 1940 recorded 338 mph at 15,200ft. Testing with 2 x 500lb bombs in 1942 gave an indicated maximum of 318 mph at 15,000ft. It was fast at low level, which is why it was retained in use despite a fairly short range, and why it was naturally replaced by the Typhoon.

ORIGINAL: langley
Looking good, but please change RAF P-40-F kittyhawk II to Kittyhawk I or Kittyhawk III as your listed variant did not serve with the RAF during the war.

It did: 260 Squadron and 3 RAAF squadron in the Desert Air Force used them consecutively between the autumn of 1942 and the summer of 1943. But they seem to have been phased out before the invasion of Sicily to allow Merlin-engined replacements to be dedicated to the 12th AF, and were replaced by P-40M Kittyhawk III's.

the AF's they are suppost to be based at are not in the game (anyone have pics/drawings of AF locs ?)

Pachino is located on the southern tip of Sicily, about 25nm SSW Syracuse
Agnone is located ~12nm S Catania, Sicily

this will have to wait a bit, I am not allowed to add Loc yet

Harley and Waynno want to study the code more before I start working on Loc's

more AF loc in Sicily or It would be welcome


by the by, a message from Harley

this is to inform you that the ship sailing with your order of Mk III/Mk IV Kittyhawks was sunk on the way

please reorder

After checking It appears I was wrong! However as far as I tell 260 squadron only had 0ne Kittyhawk II and as for 3 RAAF well I did say RAF not RAAF. As I said in an earlier post Billy Drake also appears to of flow one as well.

MJT

ORIGINAL: von Shagmeister

the AF's they are suppost to be based at are not in the game (anyone have pics/drawings of AF locs ?)

Pachino is located on the southern tip of Sicily, about 25nm SSW Syracuse
Agnone is located ~12nm S Catania, Sicily

sorry my bad, Pachino is in the game, only it is stacked

I will see what I can do about adding in Agnone

oh boy

Welllllll

ORIGINAL: langley


After a bit of checking it appears you are right. No3 sqaudron RAAF flew the Kittyhawk II for some months and the CO of 450 squadron RAAF also flew one. I have also seen a report that Billy Drake flew one. I still think that most kittyhawk II
Aircraft were sent to the USSR from what I have found so Far.

Good Call Reg.

ORIGINAL: langley

After checking It appears I was wrong! However as far as I tell 260 squadron only had 0ne Kittyhawk II and as for 3 RAAF well I did say RAF not RAAF. As I said in an earlier post Billy Drake also appears to of flow one as well.

MJT

no, you said RAAF as did Reg and gavin (fochinell)...

I have hassles with the Kittyhawk II

either all the info I am seeing is wrong, or something don't add up

One hundred and fifty P-40Fs were supplied to the RAF under Lend-Lease. The RAF assigned them the name Kittyhawk II. The Kittyhawk IIs were offset from USAAF allocations 41-13697/14599. RAF serials were FL219/448. Unfortunately, P-40Ls were also mixed in with this lot with no mark distinctions, so it is impossible to tell which planes were Fs and which were Ls by merely looking at the RAF serial number. In the event, very few of these aircraft actually served with the RAF. FL273 and FL369-448 were returned to the USAAF for use in North Africa in 1942/43. FL230/232, 235, 236, 239/240 were lost at sea before reaching the RAF. FL263, 270, 276, 280, 383, 305, and 307 were handed over to the Free French, who operated them in North Africa. 100 were transferred to the USSR.



One hundred P-40Ls were sent to Britain as Kittyhawk IIs with no mark distinctions from the P-40Fs. The RAF serials for the P-40Ls were FS400/FS499. 160 other P-40Ls reached the RAF as Kittyhawk IIIs. Their serials were FL714/FL730, FR116/FR140, FR385/FR392, and FR413/FR521.


so some 250 Kittyhawks were sold to the British, but over 100 were given back, away or lost

not counting lost in action and wastage