Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

And I still don't want to see [NATO symbols] grafted onto WWI era units, any more than I would want to see symbols from the Napoleonic era used ("anachronistic" is both forward and rearward looking, you see). What is in the game now is okay with me, but, as I said, I would like to see it refined to some degree, perhaps with reference to what the actual combatants used on their maps and charts in the early 20th century (I have looked into this some, but I am not the designer, so I have said what I wanted to say on this subject, and now I'm going to shut up about it).

Heh, didn't mean to be contentious here, pasternakski! [:)] It's just that the "legitimacy" of the so-called NATO symbols has been called into question recently on several forums I peruse (a conspiracy? [&:] ) and it seems they need some defense from those who believe that they originated from NATO. That said, I don't disagree that contemporary WWI symbols would be great, as long as they are "military" symbols. I recall studying the Official German history "Der Weltkrieg" and their situation sketch maps seemed to use something akin to NATO symbols; maybe infantry as a solid block instead of an "X", I can't recall, but nothing really novel.

As I said earlier on this thread, I think the pictures of soldiers currently displayed are pretty uneven (some samples of that art translate to small computer graphics better than others). Good thing about a symbol is that if done well -- like the current symbol for HQ's in the game -- they are of uniformly high quality, informative and hopefully authentic. Conveys a more military feel to some of us than pix of little men... [;)]

A well drawn soldier or horse cart graphic is more appealing than an "X" or whatever a horse drawn unit NATO symbol may look like. Also it helps differentiate the units at a glance rather than being so abstract. I think that for WW1 this is just fine and adds to the flavor of the game. I have seen this done in a few board games and computer games and when pulled off well, it looks fantastic. Dont doubt the artistic ability of the game designers just yet [8D]
 
 

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

A well drawn soldier or horse cart graphic is more appealing than an "X" or whatever a horse drawn unit NATO symbol may look like. Also it helps differentiate the units at a glance rather than being so abstract. I think that for WW1 this is just fine and adds to the flavor of the game. I have seen this done in a few board games and computer games and when pulled off well, it looks fantastic. Dont doubt the artistic ability of the game designers just yet [8D]

I think that the game will appeal to hard core wargamers though, and many of them prefer the NATO symbols they are accustomed to. Having a second set of unit graphics doesn't seem like it would take much effort and I think it would appease a large subset of the potential customer base.

Graphics seem fine to me.  As Lava said, its not really the graphics that draw with a game like this.

Can't wait!  I'm a bit of a WW1 buff I think, and aside from History Line which is ten years old now I've never played a WW1 game before.  This one looks worthy!

I'll be downloading it the day it comes out!

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

As an aside, I would not favor NATO unit symbols, as they are anachronistic and would detract from the historical "look" of the game - which, as some have suggested, could maybe use a little work.

How anachronistic? "NATO" unit symbols were not invented by NATO. The "X" symbol for infantry and the "/" for cavalry existed well before NATO was ever formed. NATO simply developed a standard and the term "NATO symbols" stuck. Many of the "NATO" symbols were being used since before the Napoleonic Wars; but they weren't standardized in any way.

Might I suggest an option of counters or pretty little pictures, like Hearts of Iron has?

Personally I'd prefer pretty little pictures over counters. They seem fine to me. A map full of X's in boxes would make my eyes bug out...

Looking forward to getting this one. Last WWI game I played was an AH game back in the late 60's.

ORIGINAL: Kid

Looking forward to getting this one. Last WWI game I played was an AH game back in the late 60's.

Actually, my wife had a garage sale a few months ago and as we were packing up at the end of it I found my old copy of the AH title "Guns of August". She had found it somewhere and put it out for sale, but obviously (to my delight) no one had been willing to part with 50 cents for it. We lost about 30 minutes of packing up activity as I took a break to look it over. [:D]

Any timeframe when we can expect to have this one out by?   I am looking forward to it as well

jchastain, I had to drag my old copy of GOA out a couple of weeks ago and set up all the counters. Brought back some fond memories. I hope your wife realizes that thoughtlessly selling old wargames is cause for divorce; or at least having to listen to some major bitching.[:@]

I noticed in one of the posts by Frank when he was explaining the delay, that originally, the beta was to have started last Sep. in anticipation of a Christmas release. Now, since the beta started in June, I think it might be reasonable for us to expect the game to be released in the Sep-Oct timeframe. This is my hope at least.

ORIGINAL: Arinvald
I think it might be reasonable for us to expect the game to be released in the Sep-Oct timeframe. This is my hope at least.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

<<burp>>

Haha.

Ahem.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

<<cough, cough>>

Heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee.

Thanks, Arinvald. We all need a good laugh now and then.

That was sort of phunny...

pasternakski, please don't destroy my happy delusions. I have waited so long for this game.[:(]

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

pasternakski, please don't destroy my happy delusions. I have waited so long for this game.[:(]

Me, too, pal, but I'm afraid we're going to be waiting awhile longer.

Oh - very phunny yerself, there, Terminus, old sport. Wait until you see my text yodeling sometime when I get the chance to post some...

Well, call me crazy, but I do think it will be released this year.

I have been following this forum quitely for some time now, and I am also glad that Matrix is now offering some screenshots.

IMO, the terrain looks like a picture taken from orbit, realistic and beautiful, but quite anachronistic for a WWI game. I am wondering if Matrix/Frank would agree to try the terrain graphics developed for Matrix World in Flames (MWIF).

I do not know if there are legal/copyright issues involved here, but from a technical point of view this should be relatively easy to do, and this would give a more "1914 look" to the game, without having a dull brown map (closer to the real maps used in 1914). Also, the MWIF developer is thinking changing the colors with the weather/season (snow, mud, etc) (assuming that weather/season is also part of GoA), this would add even more to the game without having to duplicate efforts.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

As an aside, I would not favor NATO unit symbols, as they are anachronistic and would detract from the historical "look" of the game - which, as some have suggested, could maybe use a little work.

How anachronistic? "NATO" unit symbols were not invented by NATO. The "X" symbol for infantry and the "/" for cavalry existed well before NATO was ever formed. NATO simply developed a standard and the term "NATO symbols" stuck. Many of the "NATO" symbols were being used since before the Napoleonic Wars; but they weren't standardized in any way.

Yes the cav/inf/art symbols existed but not the tanks air and naval units that NATO/CinCAF created.

Ever since playing the board game "Guns of August" from Avalon Hill, I've been waiting for a PC equivalent. Although I'm mainly an American Civil War gamer, I'll be buying this one regrdless of what the counters look like!

[/quote]

Might I suggest an option of counters or pretty little pictures, like Hearts of Iron has?

Personally I'd prefer pretty little pictures over counters. They seem fine to me. A map full of X's in boxes would make my eyes bug out...
[/quote]
Yeah, same for me, a game can have great gameplay and at the same time looking good no?

Please no sprites as units. Use counters. You can do so many creative things with counters to make them aesthetically pleasing. ( see Clash of Arms games)

I hated the sprites that HOI used and preferred playing with the nato symbols.