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Hi Don and John,

I don't know if this has been found or not. Sorry, I haven't checked all the errata pages. [;)]

Ship 12450 is American Leader
Ship 12221 is Am. Leader

Same class, same arrival date. This is in Scenario 27. I'm not sure if it's in the other babes scenarios, and I did not upgrade my scenario's with the latest from John's posts in the last couple of weeks.

Thanks, Brad

LCUs 5444, 5445 and 5446 have duplicated names, with the 2052nd, 3052nd and 4052nd Port Construction Battalions already active in slots 5440, 5441 and 5442.  Looks like they should be named the 2054th, 3054th and 4054th instead.

ORIGINAL: dwg

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Agronne ID 2453 class xAPs.  These were Design 1024 Hog Island troopships I think they should be APs accordingly. 

For anyone trying to google it, that should be Argonne, rather than Agronne.

Whoops!!

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735
Ship 12450 is American Leader
Ship 12221 is Am. Leader

Yep. Seems to be so in all the scens. Will rename 12221 to something else. Thanks.

ORIGINAL: noguaranteeofsanity
LCUs 5444, 5445 and 5446 have duplicated names, with the 2052nd, 3052nd and 4052nd Port Construction Battalions already active in slots 5440, 5441 and 5442. Looks like they should be named the 2054th, 3054th and 4054th instead.

Yep. Should be 2054th, 3054th and 4054th . Thanks.

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Agronne ID 2453 class xAPs. I think they should be APs accordingly.

Tough call, but don't think so. Built as Army troop transports. Didn't have the integral landing craft or other facilities to qualify as an A. They weren't suited for the A mission, so they eventually converted to something else. One of them (Chaumont?, Chateau Thierry?) got Weilins for Higgins boats just before Sicily, but only in place of lifeboat davits, nothing on the main deck, and never got any Higgins boats to go with. Think they are more like well armed USATs than APs. Could go either way, but I would keep as xAP.

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Agronne ID 2453 class xAPs. I think they should be APs accordingly.

Tough call, but don't think so. Built as Army troop transports. Didn't have the integral landing craft or other facilities to qualify as an A. They weren't suited for the A mission, so they eventually converted to something else. One of them (Chaumont?, Chateau Thierry?) got Weilins for Higgins boats just before Sicily, but only in place of lifeboat davits, nothing on the main deck, and never got any Higgins boats to go with. Think they are more like well armed USATs than APs. Could go either way, but I would keep as xAP.

I hear you. Then back to xAP it is.

Buck

ORIGINAL: JWE

Apropos of nothing at all; was talking to Dawn Gerrells, mom's health care coordinator, and it turns out her dad was chief engineer for Litton/Ingalls updates back in the late 60s and 70s. Every single hull tweak, every single new installation, and every single moved bulkhead for a modified compartment. And he's got all his blueprints and can remember every ship mod, by name. WOOF !!!

He's a real-live honest to gosh naval architect and SNAME member. Think it's time to get some more porterhouse steaks and have this fellow over to spin some yarns.

How's about a BBQ at Dana Point Harbor with him? [:D]

For those that care about such things. Link:http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/shi ... Pearl.html

This report shows that the SS Diamond Head and the SS Klipfontain (aka Clipfontaine) was at Pearl during the attack. They are in the game but not there. It also reflects the SS Permanente that's not in the game that was a 9606 ton cargo freighter.

Buck

Whoops, I just reread the post and I might have conveyed a wrong impression. It was not to imply the dev's don't care, only there are some issues more important than others and changing the ship locations and adding one more ship to all the freighters already in the data base is not such a biggy. This was to those such as myself who like all this type of additional information they can get.

No, Sir, Klipfontein wasn't there. Not even anywhere close. And was totally unarmed until taken in hand at SF, so unlikely, in any case, to be shooting at airplanes no matter where she was. Think your site's "believed to be .." eventually turned out as " .. but was found to be someone else after further review".[;)]

ORIGINAL: JWE

No, Sir, Klipfontein wasn't there. Not even anywhere close. And was totally unarmed until taken in hand at SF, so unlikely, in any case, to be shooting at airplanes no matter where she was. Think your site's "believed to be .." eventually turned out as " .. but was found to be someone else after further review".[;)]

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/shi ... Pearl.html

OK John, I know better than to "mess with Mother Nature". It seemed feasible due to the normal reliability of the source of the information. Of course I'm now focusing on the "believed to be" as you pointed out.
Her reported armament wasn't questioned because of her being a Dutch registered ship that could of very likely been armed as of that date. What ever freighter/ship was there and battling obviously was a foreign ship due to that fact.

Hey you mind sharing your source of location of the SS Klipfontein ("Not anywhere close")? Love to research such items.[;)]

Buck, a point to bear in mind is that during the Japanese attack USS Vega was tied up at Berth 31A in Honolulu Harbor, which is quite separate from Pearl.

Had the civilian and military facilities shared the same location, it would undoubtedly have facilitated the Japanese pre-attack reconnaissance. Apart from their agent on Oahu, this included a visit by a number of IJN officers aboard a Japanese steamer (possibly Tatsuta Maru, but I fear my memory is playing me false). The steamer in question put in to Honolulu, so the value of the exercise is open to question.

Neverthless, one interesting point that emerges from your link is the report of Assistant Port Director N.T.S. Aloha Tower, further down the page:

"At this time the SS Jaegersfontain was off the entrance of Honolulu Harbor attempting to enter the harbor. As the net was closed it was necessary for them to wait for an approved entry. While preparations were being made for this entry another formation of planes approached the harbor and apparently intended to bomb the Jaegersfontain. All during this time the U.S.S. Vega was firing on this formation, with their bursts sufficiently close to obviously throw them off their mark. "

This, incidentally, may supply the answer as to the correct identity of the Dutchman misidentified as Klipfontein (surely a motor ship rather than a steamer?). But what I find interesting is that the approaches to Honolulu, a civilian port, were gated. For me the significance lies in the fact that part of the assumed purpose of the Japanese reconnaissance mission was to assess the feasibility of the planned attack by Type A midget submarines. If the entrance to the civilian harbour was observed by the IJN officers to be gated, it surely must have occurred to them that there was an even higher probability of the channel into Pearl being similarly gated.

Notwithstanding the likelihood of their submarines encountering this obstacle (and potentially sounding the alarm in advance of 1st Air Fleet's strike), the midget attack went ahead, even though the midget submarines were in no way adequately equipped to penetrate a defended anchorage (unlike later British X craft).

As it turned out, the Japanese were favoured by extraordinary luck, in that the gate defences at Pearl remained open from about 0450 to 0840, 45 minutes after the air attack commenced! Had this not been the case, the sight of a midget entangled in the gate might have proved to be an alarm bell less easily disregarded than Ward's encounter with an inbound midget.

On the subject of those B-type Hog Islanders, it was Chateau Thierry that received Welin davits. St Mihiel, participant in the Attu operation, seems to have been equipped with double-deck boat handling facilities, but unclear from the photograph I have seen what kind of boats they were.

Thank you LY

Buck

Using beta K8 exe file - a number of Japanese Divisions start broken down into regimental elements. The elements use IJA Hy Inf Sqd 41. The parent uses IJA Std Inf Sqd. When the elements recombine their Hy Inf Sqd devices are sent to the pool but not replaced by the Std Ind Sqd and the divisions lose about 300 AV.

ORIGINAL: treespider
Using beta K8 exe file - a number of Japanese Divisions start broken down into regimental elements. The elements use IJA Hy Inf Sqd 41. The parent uses IJA Std Inf Sqd. When the elements recombine their Hy Inf Sqd devices are sent to the pool but not replaced by the Std Ind Sqd and the divisions lose about 300 AV.

Darn. If it ain't one thing, it's another. I know michaelm has been fixing burps in the upgrade loops. Seems like it's peeling an onion, or playing whack the mole. If you have a save, might be worthwhile to send it to him, help him chase down that darn mole.

I see where you mean. Not too many places, but enough to be a pita. Thought I caught them all, but obviously didn't. Fixed them in the Scen028 Master and have a changelog. Give me a shout if you want either one.

Ciao.

btw, had fun at Irwin, but it rained, and when it rains in the desert it freakin rains. woof !!

Ok, it's a blivet and not a burp. Michaelm is fixing the burps and in consequence, is unmasking the blivets. He has a good handle on update/upgrade but there are some residual LCUs with various devices that aren't in the update/upgrade path of corresponding devices in a parent and so it's a question of either allowing "doubling" (very bad) or zeroing out the disconnect and eventually refilling with TOE devices (not good, but better than 900# gorillas).

Std (707) and Hy (709) Inf are unrelated by upgrade paths, so having one will not get you the other because there's no internal pointer that says they are related. So the fix has to be in initial data. Groin. Anyway, give me a shout, and I'll give you the tweak.

Ciao.

Hello

Some leader will never be accessible in game because they where wrong flaged e.g.:
Leader 14051 Sprague, Thomas L. He is a Radm but flaged as „05 - Ship“. Because that there are never Radm selctable for ship`s (highest Rang is Captain) and leader which are are flaged as „05 -ship“ could never selected as a Task force commander I suggest to re flaged him as a „04 – Task Force“

The same problem for e.g. McMorris, Chas H.; Number 12359. In Scenario 28 he is Right now he is classified as "type: 05-ship". So if u remove him (maybe by accident) he seems not to be accessible because he has a rank of an Rear Admiral.
Would it be better to give him the "type 04 Task Force" or "Type 01 Headquarters" like Leader Mitscher, Marc A?
Mitscher`s Number is 12510 and he is used as a ship commander but is internal a Task Force leader.
In WW2 McMorris was a ship Commander, Task force Commander and Chief of Staff of the Pacific Fleet.

There are also some Leader which have the same Problem
Number:
9009
9010
9311
10158
12359
14051
14052

P.S. I did not look at the axis side.

I suggest simply to reflaged them all to type “04 - Task Force"

Maybe Leader 16376 Erskine should be reflaged as “02 – Large Ground Unit”

Omat

ORIGINAL: JWE

Ok, it's a blivet and not a burp. Michaelm is fixing the burps and in consequence, is unmasking the blivets. He has a good handle on update/upgrade but there are some residual LCUs with various devices that aren't in the update/upgrade path of corresponding devices in a parent and so it's a question of either allowing "doubling" (very bad) or zeroing out the disconnect and eventually refilling with TOE devices (not good, but better than 900# gorillas).

Std (707) and Hy (709) Inf are unrelated by upgrade paths, so having one will not get you the other because there's no internal pointer that says they are related. So the fix has to be in initial data. Groin. Anyway, give me a shout, and I'll give you the tweak.

Ciao.

Had already sent him the save and figured as much when I sent it...so do you change the sub unit to 707 or the parent to 709 or is it another option?

ORIGINAL: treespider
Had already sent him the save and figured as much when I sent it...so do you change the sub unit to 707 or the parent to 709 or is it another option?

Depends. I think the divisions are right, and they are on a TOE in any case, so the sub units go to what is in the Div. For the most part it's change the sub to 707. Just fyi.

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: treespider
Had already sent him the save and figured as much when I sent it...so do you change the sub unit to 707 or the parent to 709 or is it another option?

Depends. I think the divisions are right, and they are on a TOE in any case, so the sub units go to what is in the Div. For the most part it's change the sub to 707. Just fyi.

Alternatively - I assume the Hy Inf Sqd are supposed to represent a temporary beefing of the units for the initial invasion cycle - you could create a new TO&E that utilizes the Hy Inf sqd for the parent that "upgrades" in 6 months to the "Std Inf Sqd" TO&E to which the parent is currently assigned.

Nope. Don't represent anything other than a blivet. Have no intention of doing anything other than fixing it.

You, of course, may do as you please. Ciao.

ps. welcome to Homicide, Spidey. [;)]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735
Ship 12450 is American Leader
Ship 12221 is Am. Leader

Yep. Seems to be so in all the scens. Will rename 12221 to something else. Thanks.

Which name did you chose? I can't seem to find a C1-B which is eligible but not in the DBB database already... [:)]

Edit: Think I found one: "Alcoa Pathfinder" - torpedoed and lost off Mozambique 1942

Source: http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/ ... oships.htm