Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: timmyab
This is precisely correct which is why I've said from the start that the early war incompetence of the Soviet leadership has to be programed into the game.If it isn't then what you get is what we've got now between equal players.The Axis invade, have a great time for six months and then go 'Oh no this was such a bad idea' and go home, i.e. give up.
It might be a good simulation of what would have happened had the Soviet leadership been up to scratch in 41/42 but most Axis players aren't going to hang around long enough for you to find out.

Catch 22 is that then justly the Soviet players will also ask to be allowed their "improvement" for 43-45, if in 41-42 they have to follow their mistakes. Their improvement would also be strongly based on Axis mistakes, so Feste Plätze and Stalingrad like "no withdrawls" would have to be a part of that? Would you want that, or prefer to pick an opponent who would be happy to agree to play along historical doctrine and guidelines, as far as this doesn't break the game (like Axis not slowly withdrawing at least a bit in the open areas during blizzard, while the Russian site exploits this; or the Axis sides exploiting the lack of Soviet historical reinforcements in 41 while the Soviet player tries to repeat historical mistakes, and fights for pretty much every yard and counterattacks foolishly). It rather think that would be for house-rules, since there is only so much you can do to try go negate hindsight. And you might easily turn a game into a "recreation movie" of history, which is probably better left for Hollywood?

Saper's next turn has been received. I see he has recently posted and has probably shown how he is on the verge of isolating several more of my units. In hindsite I probably should have retreated out of the bulge which any idiot could see was being formed. But someone posted that the game was no longer interesting so I figured a few Russian blunders might spice it up. Anyway, I'll have to see if I can figure a way out of this mess.

Never listen to the pundits around here Harry, you will only be led astray.

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others. Kamil is just falling to pieces there and I'm really not quite sure why.

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others. Kamil is just falling to pieces there and I'm really not quite sure why.

Hes playing one of the dozen or so undefeated SHC, not to hard to figure that out. Many where undefeated before all the fuel nerfs, now its a cake walk. Just because HB has lost what 6 divisions and 2 Corp in 4 turns of spring clear and 4 turns of summer. Thats not and offensive even in snow. who are we kidding.

SHC needs to simply keep the OOB ratio at 2 to 1. Its doesn't matter if it 2.5 million vs 5 million or 4 million vs 8 million.

Kamils game is the normal result vs SHC players like yourself/Katza/Bomazz/MT/Hoooper ect ect.

SHC is driving west in the summer of 42. Nothing to genuinely be concerned over standard results of the elite SHC.

Just the standard result.

You acted shocked when none of these guys have yet to get to 43 hhehehe

Katza could not even get past the land bridge vs Bomazz in 41 heheheh

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others. Kamil is just falling to pieces there and I'm really not quite sure why.

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others.

1+ It is hard to impugne the game when Axis players make greivous errors or have laspes in judgement leading to demise; there is a real fine line which few have yet learned to walk.

ORIGINAL: Marquo

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others. Kamil is just falling to pieces there and I'm really not quite sure why.

Only game that has me genuinely concerned about Axis balance in 42 is Kamil's, not this one or any of the others.

1+ It is hard to impugne the game when Axis players make greivous errors or have laspes in judgement leading to demise; there is a real fine line which few have yet learned to walk.

What are Kamils "mistakes"? I have yet to see any.

The GHC can only take what they are given, which is old news.

The better SHC give nothing and start driving west before end of 42 summer.

The GHC can walk all the lines and still be stopped, thats why there are so many undefeated SHC players.

During 4 turns the Axis have lost 5000 guns, 1500 AFV and 125k men KIA. All these categories shows a decrease in effective numbers. During the same time, the Soviets number in guns and total men holds roughly steady - AFV numbers decrease, but the new T34 model change means that 2 new factories comes on line.

Long term, I do consider Axis guns lost to be the most significant. AFV losses will impact the offensive capability for the rest of '42, but there will be new AFV models with increased production later on. The gun losses are permanent!

The numbers aspect still shows a situation that qualifies for the 'not interesting' label in the sense that you would have to make multiple major mistakes to be in any kind of trouble. Locally, there could be some excitement but that you would lose more than ½M men I think unlikely and that is how large a margin you have.


BTW, DR SS Mot withdrew T54 and 22nd AL in T55. Know thy enemy, i.e. check the Axis OOB. At this time, there are ~140 German ID - if you know where they are, you can also know where they cannot be. The mech div's tend to make themselves visible, so to say.


EDIT: Saper does not have any problems with getting his manpower to his units, he even stated as much in the bug thread. Something is going on under the hood in the engine, and he seems to have found a work around.

We shouldn't have to contrive expedients to push manpower forward. I am very sympathetic to Kamil about this. Near as I can tell the entire Wehrmacht is falling apart and he's sitting on hundreds of thousands of men that refuse to reinforce his scarecrow divisions as they wither on the vine. It's preposterous.

I agree with that the current state of the replacement routines in the game engine is non-acceptable. A possible way forward with the investigations would be for the devs to:

Get a copy of saper's turn in this game
Check which SU he has disbanded (early in the game if I understand him correct)
Use the turn from Pelton's game that he bugged. Run two versions, 1. Pelton as is and 2. Pelton where the SU identified above are first disbanded. If 2 shows improvement to 1 it should be possible to identify the clogs in the pipe.

Naturally, asking saper to say how he noticed the clog and created a w/a is also possible.

Its an exploit and what Sapper is doing has nothing to do with it or me or Kamil.

The SHC simply drives in a few areas and the front line troops retreating/lossing morale/lossing trucks ect recieve no replasements. They are in contact with front,ZOC.

The system has a HUGE effect on GHC and zero on SHC. The SHC units that win a battle can't advance into the hex taken so they are off line and get replasements. Some 2nd line trroops advance into the hex taken.

The next turn the 2nd line troops rotate to front and attack again. GHC loses more morale/trucks/guns ect ect and recieve zero replasements.

Its so simple and how 2by3 could not see that exploit coming from 10000000 mile away I have no idea, but they could not see the fuel exploit for 18 months so that kinda of explains it.

Also gingerbread the losses of guns by GHC is because of retreat losses and poor SU managment by GHC.

The combat engine is 75% based on retreat loses, not combat during the combat phases. Thats why it is not reflective of mordern day warfare.

The new replasement system is a russian fanboys dream come true. It is another GHC beat down for no reason what so ever.

Also as with the minor allie bug, GHC AI is building to much junk and not enough squads.

I still have the Slavs building no rifle squads and the slave unit is at 7% toe after 15 turns.

The exploit is there, but Kamil could also have corrupted data.

"The exploit is there, but Kamil could also have corrupted data"

What does that mean? What are you implying?

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"The exploit is there, but Kamil could also have corrupted data"

What does that mean? What are you implying?

For him to have everything set at 100% and have 400k men in pools something is really screwed up.

Even exploiting the pos replasement system will not drive that many men into the pool. The exploit drives replasements to units in areas that really dont need the replasements. AS GHC you can not push replasements to where they are needed, they go to dead areas of front. As long as SHC keeps pressure in 3 areas they can exploit the usless replasement system.

Once those units are "full" then the replasements have no plase to go, so they start backing up in the pool. Even though there mybee 30 to 40 GHC units that are at 50% toe.

Hooopers the best at exploiting the atrition side of the game, always has been. With this red fanboy replasement system its making it a piece of cake for him. Game set match 1943.

There is something not right how hard is that to figure out?

T56: Since Saper has called off his all infantry assaults East Of Moscow and in the South, the action is now concentrated in just two areas. One is in the area roughly between Tula/Orel and Voronezh, where most of his mobile forces are located. The other is between Boguchar and Voroshilovgrad where he has about 10 mobile units.

A screenshot of the Tula/Orel to Voronezh Area from before my turn is shown below. As you can see Saper is on the verge of isolating several of my units.

Now the same Area after my turn. As you can see I tried and failed to open up a corridor wide enough for most of my trapped units to escape out of. The hex circled in red is the site of the failed crucial attack. In hindsight I should have just got away with the few units that could escape rather than wasting their movement in the failed attack.

The combat report of the failed attack.

Things went a lot better in the South. Although saving my isolated units was impossible I did once again inflict major damage on Saper's mobile forces. On my turn alone I destroyed 450 Axis AFVs. Below is the screenshot from before my turn.

And after. The hex circled in red is where I routed 3 panzer/motorized units.

The Battle Report