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ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

If this underexposed wanker would have done that in his hometome to somebody on the street he would have no chest anymore.

Could be. It's a cultural thing I guess and Pugliesi are certainly among the more temperament Italians [8D]

When I did my service in Yugoslav army in the eighties, there was huge HUGE gap between urbanized guys from "western republics" (Slovenia, Croatia) and big cities (Belgrade) on one side, and rural guys from poorer republics of the union, especially muslims from Bosnia (yeah the smell of breakup was in the air).

Saying rough guy-ish stuff like "fvck your mother" meant absolutely nothing to us "western" types, it's like "good morning" in rough big city speak, or what we saw in American movies. On the other hand saying that to Bosnian guy might have resulted in him pulling his knife to cut you, to defend what he perceived as his "honor" [8|]. So we quickly learned what to avoid saying, where and when [:D]

Different people definitely perceive things differently but still, I don't understand anyone, let alone pro football player, getting excited over such triviality. [:-] Meh.... [>:]

You know, I´m a big city guy, I have nothing to do with this "rural honor thing" you describe. If somebody says "f..ck you" to me personally or calls me names I shrug it of and pay him with a smile. But if somebody would insult my sister or even more my mother he would pay for it. I'm pretty sure most people would do this, also city people. And I'm very positive if somebody steps up to you and calls your sister or mother some nasty stuff you woulnd't simply walk away from him.

Materazzi just knew what he did and how he would react and he knew that he wouldn't get Zidane ticking by merely naming him an "a.." [;)] 

I really do not agree here Marc. You keep bringing here videos and prooves that show that materazzi is a violent player. Nobody questions about that. That's not the point.
Zidane has been violent many many times too.
On a football field it's absolutely normal to offend mothers, sisters, granfathers and every single relative you have till the 14°degree....
In fact, in the rulebook, the reaction, when is violent, is always punished more strictly than the offense.
 
But the history of Materazzi doesn't show anything here. He offended (if Zidane says the truth) his mother and sister. Zidane used violence on him as a reaction.
 
Remember Totti and his spit against Pavlsen during last eurotournament? well...totti has been provocked and kicked for the whole match...but nobody said anything to defend Totti or to blame Paulsen....
 
 

ah, and maybe you do not know the whole story...
Materazzi's mother died few years ago for a cancer. He was very tied to his mom.
Since that, in every single italian stadium Inter goes, the whole stadium sings "Materazzi figlio di putt....."....well, i guess you whole know what it means.... so what? Materazzi should kick everyone who calls him motherfu*****..??
In italy these words are very very common guys. We blame each other's mother very very often, exactly like we blame our gods in a way that most of your languages (english for ex.) do not even contemplate

nice discussion guys. we have just seen the italian way to win.

[:D]

double post

Well Materazzi should have known that you must do not mess with french player's mother...
Remember Cantona and his famous kungfu kick....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Ez9D2r ... cantona%20

Gen Hoepner, I can't agree with you when saying that insults are part of the game. It should not be tolerate.
Football players, now considered like stars must act with cautious, fairness, and have an irreprochable behaviour as being seen by thousands, millions of people. Violence must not be admitted, nor should be insulting and racist speeches which are also reprehensible.
When tolering such behaviour, this is encouraging new Materazzi players on the pitch and it s not helping to promote this sport.
For our american friends, who are still amazed about the passion for this sport, please note that all small kid in Europe and Africa play football from their little childhood, and I don't remember for myself when playing, insulting or being insult by people I play with.
Furthermore, it s a shame to taunt a opponent player to lower his skills and hoping he ll react. This is sport and supposed to be fair.
You may consider I am living in a dream world, but I ll always support my opinion because I believe it s fair.

Speaking about the game, I believe Canavarro was the best player. He was amazing, being everywhere at everytime. He is a defender and I don't remember having seen him commting a fault, nor insulting a french player. He played with class.

Now, about Zidane, of course his headbutt is not forgivable, but he will still be one, if not THE; best player of this last decade. Whoever have seen him playing, cannot disagree about this fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBmzo26zdo0&search=Zidane%20leverkusen

Gen Hoepner, I can't agree with you when saying that insults are part of the game. It should not be tolerate.
Football players, now considered like stars must act with cautious, fairness, and have an irreprochable behaviour as being seen by thousands, millions of people. Violence must not be admitted, nor should be insulting and racist speeches which are also reprehensible.
When tolering such behaviour, this is encouraging new Materazzi players on the pitch and it s not helping to promote this sport.
For our american friends, who are still amazed about the passion for this sport, please note that all small kid in Europe and Africa play football from their little childhood, and I don't remember for myself when playing, insulting or being insult by people I play with.
Furthermore, it s a shame to taunt a opponent player to lower his skills and hoping he ll react. This is sport and supposed to be fair.
You may consider I am living in a dream world, but I ll always support my opinion because I believe it s fair.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBmzo26z ... leverkusen[/color][/link]

Jean,

While I agree with you on a strict theoretical level, many of my friends (who play/ed soccer on different levels and in different countries) confirmed what Hoepner said:

Insults like the one we are talking about here seem to be rather "normal" in soccer games on all different levels. In fact, many think that it is actually a defensive player's job to get under the skin of the opposing strikers to irritate them, put stress on them and have them make mistakes.
You might not like it (and I don't like it either), but it is quite likely that the "customs" of this sport simply do not warrant a reaction like the one we have seen from Zidane to what Materazzi did to him.
This merely describes the "sportive" side of this incident (if you want to call it that ...) and from this perspective Zidane was probably wrong.

But there is also the personal side to it - and I come to a very different conclusion here ... [:D] , but hey, these are only my 10cents ... [;)]

Zidane may had been right if Materazzi used racist insults, but that reaction for such common and light offense (to the sister!)... what a loser!

As Gen. Hoepner said noone cared what the Danish player said to Totti (that was fine for me, Totti should not have spat him), but now foreign medias are trying to make the guilt fall on Materazzi [:-]. Shame on them!

Here's a movie about Zidane, showing how weak Zidane's selfcontrol is...
Zidane the victim

They should revoke his title as best WC player!

Just wait for the upcoming qualifying match for Euro 2008 by the end of september:
France vs. Italy (or maybe Italy vs. France I don't know exactly).
[:D][:D][:D]

Materazzi is a maniac, period. I´m not saying and have not that Zidane's action was okay. It was surely not. And to "pkunzipper", FIFA is allready on the way to take the "Golden Ball" thropy from Zidane. The investigation could also have another interesting sideeffect, but Materazzi allready stated that he does not even know this word [;)]

and I don't remember for myself when playing, insulting or being insult by people I play with.

I played football for 9 or so yours in a team were we had weekly games and a couple of tournaments. I can't remeber that anybody ever insulted family members of mine or that I did insult anybody others.

Furthermore, it s a shame to taunt a opponent player to lower his skills and hoping he ll react. This is sport and supposed to be fair.
You may consider I am living in a dream world, but I ll always support my opinion because I believe it s fair.

Exactly. Maybe insulting family members is common in some other countries, makes you think. If pro players do this on the field just because they can't play better as there opposing player then it shows me that they have zero dignity and betray themselves.

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Just wait for the upcoming qualifying match for Euro 2008 by the end of september:
France vs. Italy (or maybe Italy vs. France I don't know exactly).
[:D][:D][:D]

I'm pretty sure we will not see Materazzi on the field. Gallas allready promised revenge.

ORIGINAL: Jean Bart
Speaking about the game, I believe Canavarro was the best player. He was amazing, being everywhere at everytime. He is a defender and I don't remember having seen him commting a fault, nor insulting a french player. He played with class.

Yes, Canavarro is a player I can admire. He plays fair (it is not contradiction to play rough and fair) and with skill and style.

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck



Exactly. Maybe insulting family members is common in some other countries, makes you think. If pro players do this on the field just because they can't play better as there opposing player then it shows me that they have zero dignity and betray themselves.

I think insults are not motivated by a sense of inferiority...it's just a part of the common lenguage, at least here in Italy.
I remember when i was 11 i was playing for a team of my block, in a city tournament. The first time i met my mates ( we were all under 13 years old, i was shocked by their language, but soon i understood that they weren't offending me (or anyone else)...at least not in the litteral meaning of the used words....hope you understand what i mean. Com'on! Just watch a move and try to enumerate the times when the main character say "son of a b..." "mother f..." and so on....
I've been called like that thousands of times, but i never even immagined to defend my "honour" starting a fight for that...

BTW Gen Hoepner, I like your avatar. It looks tough and no nonsense. I think mine looks a bit like a gay panzer commander but he still means business [:D]. It's from a HG division recruiting poster if anyone's interested.

Bottom line to this discussion. Materazzi is a thug but professionals have to focus on the task at hand. Zidane should have used the insults as motivation to win. In that way, you turn them to your advantage.

Australia had a fantastic, gutsy cricket captain in the 80s called Allan Border. He took over when the squad was severely weakened by the retirement of 3 great players and other teams, such as the terrifying West Indies (anyone who saw them then will know what I mean) were at their peak. As the vital link in the batting order, he initially copped a verbal and fast bowling barrage because once he was out, there was often very little more resistance. There's not much you can do about balls flying past your ears and hitting you in the chest and arms at 150km/h but insults only made him more determined and he performed heroically again and again. Word soon got around...don't say anything to Allan Border.

As was said previously, football is a gentleman's game played by ruffians.

Cheers, Neilster

Yes Cricket is a nice civilised sport. Or at least the "rules of intimidation" are understood by all parties.

Great piccie BTW. Initially I thought it must be Don Bradman until I saw the beard, lol.

Neilster

Very good choice of player, one of the gutsiest sportsman ever - Allan Boarder, he took every thing the Windies at their best could dish up to him and kept fighting.

Thanks guys. A trademark cut shot by AB.

I had a Duncan Fearnley bat just like his. A very good blade if knocked in properly.

Cheers, Neilster