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I do and have a somewhat clear idea as to the nightmare doing this would be. We'll have to see. FatR: YOUR Thoughts here?

JWE: How did you do your research? What sources did you use? Sorry--it is the historian coming out...

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I LIKE THAT IDEA!

FatR???

No problem with that. Extra flexibility will be welcome. I'd like to see the feedback from potential players about whether they want a pure PBEM scenario, though. (But I'm not sure if major changes to the air side won't break the AI anyway).

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
JWE: How did you do your research? What sources did you use? Sorry--it is the historian coming out...

There’s an excellent survey of the DEI campaign by L. Klemen, Forgotten Campaign: The Dutch East Indies Campaign 1941-1942. http://www.dutcheastindies.webs.com/ Very well researched, very well presented. Has good information for both sides and I recommend it as a starting point.

The Japanese details came from the Japanese Monographs series. A good source for who was where, and when, and with what stuff. Mainly from the “biggie”
No 116 – IJN in World War II:
.. Part I, Organization of the Fleets
.. Part II, Organization of the Area Fleets
.. Part III, Organization of the Naval Air Fleets
This guy has it “all”, in an excellent graphical form. Includes the complete unit component (Ground, Admin, Naval and Air) of every Base Force of all the Area Fleets; their activation/deactivation dates, content evolution, individual unit transfer history, month by month from Dec. 41 to Aug. 45. No 116 has tons more stuff in 8 more Parts: 300 pages so chock full of raw data it will keep you thrilled for a year or more. Individual operational details came from a few other Monographs.
No 16 – Ops Record: Amboina and Timor Invasion
No 28 – Ops Record: Tarakan Invasion (Sakaguchi-a)
No 29 – Ops Record: Balikpapan Invasion (Sakaguchi-b)
No 30 – Ops Record: Bandjermasin (Sakaguchi-c)
No 66 – Invasion of Netherlands East Indies
No 67 – Ops Record: Palembang and Bangka Islands
No 80 – IJN OpSit in Philippine Invasion Ops
No 92 – Southwest Area Naval Ops
No 101 – Naval Ops in Invasion of Netherlands East Indies
No 105 – General Summary, Naval Ops, Southern Force
No 113 – Task Force Ops, Nov. 41 – April 42

FatR: What is our status? I believe you said you had a busy schedule last week and this one.

Do we want to send the turn files over to our French and Thai expert--Skyland? He could get those added and then we can finish the Japanese additions. I can handle the Allied additions as we've settled on the other thread.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

FatR: What is our status? I believe you said you had a busy schedule last week and this one.

Yes, unfortunately. I'm still working on cruisers, so, as you can see, there is still a lot to do. I can send files to Skyland, if he agrees.

Ok for me. pm sent.

GREAT!

Work continues. FatR has been quite busy and trying to knockoff portions of the actual editor work reflecting what we've settled upon for Japan at this point. Skyland has been tackling the French and Thai and so this is a valuable portion that promises some surprises for both sides.

Skyland: How are things coming along?

FatR: Thought. When you get the files back from Skyland you send them over to me. How about you keep working on the Fleet and I'll work on the Allied air, ground, and base changes? We can speed things up that way.

Now that bug-fixing in RA is finally done, I'm ready to resume work on this mod, but still no answer from Skyland after I've sent him the files...

That was a pain wasn't it? Wonder how the errors got back into the Mod? Mine with Bill doesn't SEEM to have an issue.

Skyland? What is your status?

FatR: Looks like you will get the files back from Skyland this weekend. Do you want to work on the ship files while I tackle the changes to Allied LCU, bases, and aircraft? Is yes, then please send the updated files once you have them from Skyland.

YES! Skyland has sent the files to FatR. Well done Sir and thanks for the work. Looking forward to seeing the new artwork once you've got it complete.

Stanislav: How about what I suggested earlier? You continue working on the ship files and I'll work on Allied air, LCU, and base stuff. WE can then switch when finished and I can work on Allied ships and you do the other for the Japanese. How does that sound? If good, send my the updated files when you get the chance. THANKS!

I've got the game files right now and am doing mainly Allied changes that we've agreed upon in the other Thread.

Big question that I have is what can/could be done with the IJA on the ground? We've examined some ideas regarding the IJN creating more CD and 'Atoll Defense Forces' but haven't really said a thing for the Army. Thoughts and/or Comments?

Ground Forces for the IJA are now mine to work with. FatR and I chatted over the email regarding this and he thinks it is a good idea sooooooo we need to get started there. Current Plans:

1. Creation of Japanese "Atoll Defense Forces" based on withdrawal of SNLF units beginning in mid-to-late 1942 returning about six months later.
2. A totally revamped China scenario where the Japanese start WAY back from the normal beginning lines. This is an area that I dread. Is there someone out there with sufficient China knowledge to take this theatre over for the Mod work?
3. What new units--if any--should we create for the IJA?
4. Should there be changes to Japanese equipment? We've had Tank Proposals and some comments about different guns... What is good, solid and dare I say realistic things that could be done?

Just notifying that my leave from forums is, hopefully, ending. Will need some time to catch up with the discussions. So far John 3rd and Skyland (thanks for his work!) have all the files.

A quick note on atoll defense forces John - I imagine introducing an improved NavGuard TOE with a handful of mortars and AAMGs added in 1943 might be helpful there. Withdrawing SNLFs and introducing naval garrizons is something I agree with.

And before I forgot - what do you thing about the proposal to split naval base forces into separate units, that was given above? I like it, but don't think that it is worth breaking AI...

FatR! Good to see you emerging from your life excitement. Like the idea of the TOE upgrade. Have already written down some ideas there. Good thoughts.

We have a gentlemen who has volunteered to takeover China. He has IDEAS! I have asked that we bring the discussion here due to needing to figure what we will do with the IJA in the two years they get BEFORE attacking China in 1939.

The discussion has focused SOOOO much on the Fleet that we do need to work this angle. Some opening thoughts:

1. A more air-minded Army that has two additional years to see development across the world before launching its attack into China in 1939. More R&D for airframes that might emerge in 1941/42 perhaps?

2. Perhaps the creation of Tank Divisions earlier. What about starting with the 1st and 2nd TK Divisions already fighting in China? New Tanks?

3. Would it be the same size? Perhaps the creation of more Brigades like the 35th/65th?

I have NOOOOO vision here but really want to kick start a discussion. This needs to be realistic and happen for the Mod to truly reflect the full picture...

We also need to settle on what we'll do with Manchuria during those two years. Discussion of the following has occurred:

1. Anshuun Development along the lines of RA with a refinery and additional oil there.
2. More HI and LI
3. Several more Aircraft plants at Harbin. WE split the single one into two with RA perhaps we should turn Harbin into a major Army research and building center for the IJA?
4. Increase Shipyards at Pt Arthur and Fusan

What else is there to look at and what would be practical?

"Gentleman" is pushing it a bit, I think. I suppose I should take the compliments where I can get'em...ok:

I am still going through the literature I have on China; actually I've barely scratched the surface of what I have - I got through the interesting parts of 'Britain and the Sino-Japanese War 1937-1939' and 'The United States and the Far Eastern Crisis 33-38' yesterday and today - I thought I'd get those two done with, just to get my bearings before starting on the purely China-focused stuff I got out - but I will comment on how the 'stock' scenario feels, bearing in mind that I basically know very little about Japanese ground stuff and that the DBB setup may change this in ways that aren't immediately apparent:

- The Japanese effectively have the ability to - in a line-up-every-soldier-in-a-field sort of way - conquer China. In real life it wasn't as simple as that, since you can't just line up every soldier in a field - the Japanese mostly reached the positions they occupy in 1942 in mid-1938, after which although the war continues there's not much movement, for a bunch of reasons including logistical and supply problems, domestic political doubts, bargaining with China, international pressures one way or the other, whatever. The point is that there were brakes on the Japanese ability to just turn up and say "we'll have that" - some that evaporate once the wider war starts, some that don't - that aren't represented in game, so the way to go as Japan is to just turn everything up to 11 the moment the game starts and unless you do something really daft or your opponent does something really bright, that's about the end of it - the Japanese either break through to Chungking, or they seal the Chinese up in the mountains, from where the can't really leave (except via Burma, which is perhaps as a consequence pointed at as the place the Japanese "can't win"). Either way you have a significant release of forces after everything's done.

- The reverse applies, though it's harder to do - if the Japanese do something really daft, or the Chinese do something really brilliant before everything congeals, the NRA can move to exploit it on a wide scale - and while that may have been technically possible up to a point there seems to have been absolutely no will to do so on the part of the KMT, particularly after Dec. 7 - the leadership was absolutely war-weary and really just wanted someone else to do the heavy lifting for a while, with most of the world's cajoling supply expended on the part of the US & UK in trying to get any offensive action in China to relatively little effect.

So - by late 42 you'd expect the constantly shrinking remnants of the Chinese army to be holed up on a line +- Baoshan-Kunming-Guiyang-Patung-Xi'an, unable to do much beyond replace the casualties they're taking - and that's if they're lucky. Bit odd. I suppose the problem is that the game isn't scaled quite right for China - there's no "duck into the hills and then jump onto the enemy supply lines" option - and that's basically everyone's M.O, in theory - since doing that means weeks of marching, during which you're being watched all the time and bombed incessantly, if you're the Chinese. These are not insoluble problems, even if you don't change the setup much:

* You can proliferate bases; more prefortification options mean campaigns go slower.
* You can increase garrison requirements; the IJA and Chinese both have several thousand AV in theatre surplus to their garrison needs, hence you get these massive blocks of troops stomping around - keep more of them at home and the ones that can shift about will have a more sensible time of it. This will also mean the war in China heats up gradually, rather than immediately - with Chinese recovery from disablement and new Japanese units enabling garrison requirements to be met more easily as time goes by.

Do both of those and things start to get a little more sensible - is denying the enemy 20 resources a day worth tying up half a division on garrison duty? Are you willing to pay the political price of leaving all your Zaibatsu shops unprotected against terrorism to go off and fight a campaign in the mountains?

Anyway - bedtime soon. None of this even begins to address what to do in an alternate history scenario - changing the setup should to a certain extent mean changing the road and railway situation, for example, and I think there's a way to handle the Yangtze's navigability more usefully than it's done at present - but really what China will look like depends greatly on what the Japanese army - and Japan proper - look like.

I hadn't seen anything about changes to the Japanese war plan, so I'll jump in, and I apologize if I missed something there.

Based on the assumption that Japan wants to utilize 100% of their force effectively (Army-Navy Cooperation), and that the Navy wants to hand the US as close to a knock out blow that they can in the opening weeks of the war...

Have invasion forces following the KB with the targets of Midway, Kauai and Hawaii. The KB should be able to knock out the fleet at PH, contain the air resources of Oahu and prevent the US carriers from intervening. If the US carriers do intervene, that is their loss. Utilize this chain to transfer aircraft into the theater. This will set up a blockade that will starve the US forces in PH. It should also provide a path for resupply that is protected by air cover. Use the battleships that are currently held in reserve in Japan for fire support and to engage any US battleships that might be stupid enough to try and sortie to interfere.

The troops for this movement would come from the Philippines invasion. The Japanese would realize that the air forces based in the Philippines are no threat to the seaborne supply lines and use the troops and transports from those operations to support the Hawaiian operations. Use the light carriers assigned to those invasions to cover the Malay operations and maybe a mini-PH at Singapore.

Wheel off the Malay operations into the DEI to capture resources needed to maintain the economy. Air cover will protect convoys from the air threat from the Philippines.

With all of the important stuff captured (DEI), you can conquer the Philippines at your leisure. It isn't like the US is going to be able to reinforce any better than they are with the initial invasion. If they do, that is less stuff that they are going to have available for later operations.

This would be a radical deviation in strategy for the Japanese, but would knock the Pacific Fleet back to the US coast, still knock the British back to India, and eventually capture the Philippines which have little value other than propaganda.