Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:52 pm**

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I would think one of two things would happen when 1,000 fighters and some strike aircraft on one side meet 600 fighters on the other: (1) the defending CAP could do whatever is necessary to take on the strike aircraft, thus suffering heavy losses from the enemy planes; or (2) the defending CAP takes on the massive enemy fighters, resulting in heavy losses to both sides but allowing some enemy strike aircraft getting through. What I wouldn't expect is for all those fighters to mingle and then part ways with minimal losses to both sides (unless bad weather interfered suddenly, forcing each side to return to base, but there's no indication of that).

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:32 pm**

I struggle to see what a LRCAP of a base that has no friendly LCU or TF is achieving.
What is it CAPing?

You should get ESCORT or SWEEP unless you can CAP a specific friendly LCU, TF or Base.

I think use of the LRCAP in this case was not thought of by the devs and therefore allowed by the engine. (A House rule could cover this if required)

Obvert appears to be a good bloke, have a chat.

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:08 pm**

Sapporo has 864 fighters that are 10 hexes from Shikuka. He has 264 at Bihoro and more at Omininato. He's flying LRCAP at long range, which makes the LRCAP nerfing, if that's really what's happening, all the more irksome.

Didn't he nerf himself by flying at near the maximum range of his aircraft?
Was there time for lots of A2A?
CAP can go out for 2 hexes?
Did you shoot down most of his bombers?

Planes operating at extended range can be forced to withdraw due to fuel constraints resulting in fewer rounds of Air to Air Combat. 7.2.1.6

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:35 pm**

I am wondering if you should have some fighters very low, 4000 feet or so, to engage his bombers and not his LRCAP.

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:46 pm**

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am wondering if you should have some fighters very low, 4000 feet or so, to engage his bombers and not his LRCAP.

From CR's post 389:

"I have huge spread in altitudes - from 4k to 40k. The P-39s are low, the P-38s are high, in between are the Corsairs, Thunderbolts, Hellcats and Thunderbolts. I shift the latter around a bit so that Erik doesn't keep getting a set look."

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:59 am**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Per Loka's request yesterday to see more info regarding what happened, here's the complete combat report:

Guess number 1: look at the time for "all" of your planes to reach contact and compare it to the time to target for the raid. No groups had a time of less than 30 minutes. Many were in the mid-40s. That's very, very long. You must have had them set to some amount of range? And it looks like a low % of CAP per group, judging by the fact that no planes started in the air/engaged immediately out of the first 5-6 groups that I looked at. So in sum, your CAP looks "diffused" and wasn't able to properly respond to a raid. This happens whether it's 5 planes on CAP or 500.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:00 am**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

One last comment. I think Obvert has found a good exploit but it probably is true that the death star in itself is a exploit. I know a lot of Japanese players hate it. So perhaps you will have to do a little horse trading.

I really, really think that what happened in this one turn may have been a fluke combined with your particular CAP settings.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:02 am**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To recapitulate, for newcomers to this thread, here are the questions I'm asking after yesterday's odd air battle over Shikuka:

1. Was an unusual air-battle environment crated by Erik using uber LRCAP that somehow "froze" my CAP?
2. If so, is there a reasonable counter-tactic?
3. If not, has my CAP effectively been nerfed so that I have no reasonable means of defending my base?

I'm still gathering information. Even though I think the answer to #1 is "yes," I haven't approached Erik yet. I first want to fully explore #2. If there is a reasonable counter-tactic, then everything's fine.

I've sent the next turn to him (last night) but haven't gotten it back yet.

I think I suggested some yesterday or the day before.

In short, move out of Shikuka and "abandon" his LRCAP. Or raid somewhere. Japan doesn't have that many fighters. It would require your carriers, but him basing 1000+ fighters over just a couple of airbases on Hokkaido means he's going to have very few fighters elsewhere, even in Japan itself.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:09 am**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I would think one of two things would happen when 1,000 fighters and some strike aircraft on one side meet 600 fighters on the other: (1) the defending CAP could do whatever is necessary to take on the strike aircraft, thus suffering heavy losses from the enemy planes; or (2) the defending CAP takes on the massive enemy fighters, resulting in heavy losses to both sides but allowing some enemy strike aircraft getting through. What I wouldn't expect is for all those fighters to mingle and then part ways with minimal losses to both sides (unless bad weather interfered suddenly, forcing each side to return to base, but there's no indication of that).

Last post in a row [;)]

Keep in mind that the numbers shown in the combat are an abstraction of the total available. Even those planes shown on the actual combat animation are not always actually there for the combat. Case in point: in my most recent turn as Japan, I had 54 fighters over a base (on LRCAP). A raid of 4 B-24s came in. There was no actual combat, despite seeing "planes intercepting now" in the combat report. Note the difference between altitudes, but even after the raid there was no combat. Sometimes that just happens, especially with LRCAP and especially when there is a very low amount of time between when the CAP is able to intercept and when the raid is overhead.

Another case where planes shown in the combat animation are not actually there for the combat are when sweeps incidentally arrive at the same time - oftentimes, the additional 25 planes from a second Allied group will not even participate at all.

There's a reason I try not to use LRCAP unless absolutely necessary. It really doesn't work that well - despite him having hundreds of planes "there" on LRCAP, you still ate up his strike package for a net loss for him (even relative to the 2:1 VP ratio).

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 53

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 7000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with N1K5-J George (29 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
29 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 24000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 24000.
Raid is overhead
Unyo-1 with N1K5-J George (24 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
24 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 20000.
Raid is overhead

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:21 am**

Loka, thanks for looking into this and replying in depth. For what it's worthy, your hunches about my CAP settings are wrong. All fighter squadrons were set to 70% or 80% CAP at Range 0. Altitudes ranged from 4k to 40k.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:22 am**

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I struggle to see what a LRCAP of a base that has no friendly LCU or TF is achieving.
What is it CAPing?

You should get ESCORT or SWEEP unless you can CAP a specific friendly LCU, TF or Base.

I think use of the LRCAP in this case was not thought of by the devs and therefore allowed by the engine. (A House rule could cover this if required)

Obvert appears to be a good bloke, have a chat.

You are CAPing to interdict enemy air activity. Most especially useful to catch air transport. I never use it as form of 'escort' for bombing missions myself, so I can't comment on that usage.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:28 am**

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I struggle to see what a LRCAP of a base that has no friendly LCU or TF is achieving.
What is it CAPing?

You should get ESCORT or SWEEP unless you can CAP a specific friendly LCU, TF or Base.

I think use of the LRCAP in this case was not thought of by the devs and therefore allowed by the engine. (A House rule could cover this if required)

Obvert appears to be a good bloke, have a chat.
You are CAPing to interdict enemy air activity. Most especially useful to catch air transport. I never use it as form of 'escort' for bombing missions myself, so I can't comment on that usage.

IMVHO this is an incorrect usage, historically. What the game allows is different.
IMVHO this is what a sweep is for, I've yet to read a book where fighters were "CAPing" an enemy base, plenty of sweeps though.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:31 am**

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I struggle to see what a LRCAP of a base that has no friendly LCU or TF is achieving.
What is it CAPing?

You should get ESCORT or SWEEP unless you can CAP a specific friendly LCU, TF or Base.

I think use of the LRCAP in this case was not thought of by the devs and therefore allowed by the engine. (A House rule could cover this if required)

Obvert appears to be a good bloke, have a chat.
You are CAPing to interdict enemy air activity. Most especially useful to catch air transport. I never use it as form of 'escort' for bombing missions myself, so I can't comment on that usage.
IMVHO this is an incorrect usage, historically. What the game allows is different.
IMVHO this is what a sweep is for, I've yet to read a book where fighters were "CAPing" an enemy base, plenty of sweeps though.

Do you mean the example I cited of interdicting air transport missions?

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:09 pm**

Canoerebel
I would think one of two things would happen when 1,000 fighters and some strike aircraft on one side meet 600 fighters on the other: (1) the defending CAP could do whatever is necessary to take on the strike aircraft, thus suffering heavy losses from the enemy planes; or (2) the defending CAP takes on the massive enemy fighters, resulting in heavy losses to both sides but allowing some enemy strike aircraft getting through.

But that is not what happens, in RL or gamewise.

Is it unrealistic to expect both sides to meet like a football kickoff?

From my short time in WitPAE, I dont see a problem here. Planes arrive in waves, there was very little "time" for A2A combat, Jap fighters turned back for home, most of your fighters were "vectored on to bombers" where they did well.

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:51 pm**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Loka, thanks for looking into this and replying in depth. For what it's worthy, your hunches about my CAP settings are wrong. All fighter squadrons were set to 70% or 80% CAP at Range 0. Altitudes ranged from 4k to 40k.

Huh. I've never seen engagement times that high with settings like that, especially not when the raid was detected with 50 or so minutes of warning.

I still don't think this is an issue with the engine. LRCAP often doesn't always fight (or even show up), or when it does "show up" in the comabt report/animation, it doesn't actually do anything at times. This is because of the loiter time over the target hex - his nearest airbase is extremely distant from Shikuka (8 hexes? 7?) so it's possible that his planes showed up in the animation but were never able to engage.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:48 am**

Do you have any ARDs in the Aleutians, or will all the damaged CVs have to go to the WC?

Cheers,
CC

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am**

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Per Loka's request yesterday to see more info regarding what happened, here's the complete combat report:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 20, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 126,43

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 53 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 18
A6M5 Zero x 30
A6M5c Zero x 63
A6M8 Zero x 431
D4Y3 Judy x 21
J2M3 Jack x 75
N1K1 Rex x 20
N1K2-J George x 101
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 109
Ki-84a Frank x 140
Ki-100-I Tony x 38

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 57
P-39D Airacobra x 24
P-39N1 Airacobra x 25
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 113
P-51B Mustang x 16
F4U-1 Corsair x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 159
F6F-3 Hellcat x 114

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 12 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Brown

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
312th BG/387th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
(12 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 2 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
VF-2 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 17 on standby, 13 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
VF-42 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 19 on standby, 15 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
VF-8 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 19 on standby, 15 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-11 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 7 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
VC(F)-20 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
VC(F)-96 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 6 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VC(F)-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 6 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
VC(F)-7 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VRF-10F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 10 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VMF-112 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
VMF-321 with F4U-1 Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
8th PG/20th TRS with P-51B Mustang (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
23rd FG/118th TRS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
312th BG/386th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
312th BG/388th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 9 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 50 minutes
18th FG/44th FS with P-39D Airacobra (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Shikuka at 126,43

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 151 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 28
A6M5b Zero x 30
D4Y3 Judy x 36
J2M3 Jack x 67
N1K2-J George x 28
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 100
Ki-84a Frank x 96
Ki-100-I Tony x 50

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 57
P-39D Airacobra x 24
P-39N1 Airacobra x 25
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 112
P-51B Mustang x 16
F4U-1 Corsair x 17
F4U-1A Corsair x 159
F6F-3 Hellcat x 110

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 18 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK James D. Phelan
xAK Richard B. Moore, Bomb hits 1
xAK Phoebe A. Hearst, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Michael Casey, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-42 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 19 on standby, 15 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 28770.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-11 with F4U-1A Corsair (5 airborne, 11 on standby, 7 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-7 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 9 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 1 on standby, 1 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 12 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 17 on standby, 15 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
26 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-20 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-96 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 6 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 6 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
VRF-10F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 10 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-112 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 4 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-321 with F4U-1 Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 4 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
8th PG/20th TRS with P-51B Mustang (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
23rd FG/118th TRS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
312th BG/386th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 47 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
312th BG/387th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
312th BG/388th BS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
343rd FG/18th FS with P-47D25 Thunderbolt (2 airborne, 8 on standby, 9 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
18th FG/44th FS with P-39D Airacobra (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 55 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Phoebe A. Hearst
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Michael Casey

The first obvious thing, I see, is that you have HARDLY any plane airborne at start. So my guess, is that they are still waiting on airfields. Now why is that? Poor morale, poor HQ leader? What happened before those strikes (well, if there would be sweeps, there wouldn't be so much US planes reported in the first place)

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:15 pm**

It can't be that. All squadron and HQ leaders have good leadership stats. In fact, I spent well over 1,000 PP on leaders over a month preparing for the invasion. Fatigue and morale numbers for the pilots were all very good too.

I wonder if the airfield being overcrowded had an effect? It's level 8 with way more than enough aviation support but more squadrons than there's room for. My experience is that 600 fighters at a level 8 field will result in more downtime for plans that need repairs or maintenance but that it doesn't really effect the fighters that get airborne and most of them will get airborne.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:17 pm**

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody
Do you have any ARDs in the Aleutians, or will all the damaged CVs have to go to the WC?
Cheers,
CC

Can you imagine bringing along an ARD on an amphibious operation in which speed is highly desirable? Those critters make 5 knots, so I didn't bring any along. There is one in the Aleutians, but I'll likely send my damaged carriers to the West Coast. They're already east of Attu so it's not a long journey (especially to what I was accustomed to dealing with in my game with John III prior to the taking of Manila).

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:49 pm**

All fighter squadrons were set to 70% or 80% CAP

fatigue?

If CAP is a rotating patrol, at 70%/80% who do they rotate with

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