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Quick post to get the title back....why do people feel the need to change thread names? Thanks Desterto [:@]

Agreed, and this is the point I was trying to make in 4329.

Look at the fees Real and Barca and Juventus have paid for some players over the last few years. Totally unsustainable.

Trouble they have is that the likes of Man City and Chelsea have come along and threaten to outspend them.

Whilst I have ZERO sympathy for those two Spanish clubs, we in England know what its like to face this sort of situation. Historically Chelsea and Manchester City were not on a par with Spurs - but along comes oil money and......

They governing body have tried and failed with FFP. I don't know what the answer is. We've been lucky in England so far and we are not in a Scotland/Germany/Italy/Spain situation yet. But look at the number of domestic trophies won by Manchester City in the last four years. There is an argument to say we are getting there.....

When Pep can spend over £300 million on his defence alone then there is clearly a problem - even for the likes of United and Liverpool (whose owners are in it for the buck).

As Barce showed with Coutinho, you only need one mistake when you are spending such colossal amounts on players you couldn't really afford in the first place.

But really pleased to see Crawley Town show some resolve and turn down the ESL. Good for them.

Lolz... according to leaked documents Barca and Real Madrid were to receive €60m more than the other teams [:)]

...and there is a £130m penalty fee for exiting. I'd like to see who is going to pay that and to whom?

Spurs certainly can't afford it....

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Lolz... according to leaked documents Barca and Real Madrid were to receive €60m more than the other teams [:)]

...and there is a £130m penalty fee for exiting. I'd like to see who is going to pay that and to whom?

Spurs certainly can't afford it....

there is an article by Sid Lowe in the Guardian today (and he is well connected re things Real etc) that suggests that Perez is claiming its still a live project as no one has paid to exit (I can't find it on their website).

In a situation like this, I suspect the clubs that pulled out will say to the 2-3 remaining clubs, You want the exit fee, you sue us for it.

But I hear JPM have pulled the financing so there isn't a viable project still in place in any case - either from the participants or the financials point of view.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and there is a £130m penalty fee for exiting. I'd like to see who is going to pay that and to whom?

JP Morgan is the investment bank behind the ESL. Morgan will want his money and he is a dangerous rival in the courts. The 12 teams will have to find tactics to pay the fee as late as possible, because they will pay the fee... JP Morgan never forgives.

Right now, the Barca CEO excuses himself saying that the supporters will vote "yes" or "no" for ESL in an assembly. It´s "more democratic", he said [8|]
Perez says that Real is "stand by" about the ESL, "Real isn´t gone", "the others is failing". Clearly, he´s looking to avoid the fee.
So the ESL is dead, but it will bring a lot of troubles for these 12 teams... Maybe they deserve it [:D]

ORIGINAL: Piteas

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and there is a £130m penalty fee for exiting. I'd like to see who is going to pay that and to whom?

JP Morgan is the investment bank behind the ESL. Morgan will want his money and he is a dangerous rival in the courts. The 12 teams will have to find tactics to pay the fee as late as possible, because they will pay the fee... JP Morgan never forgives.

Right now, the Barca CEO excuses himself saying that the supporters will vote "yes" or "no" for ESL in an assembly. It´s "more democratic", he said [8|]
Perez says that Real is "stand by" about the ESL, "Real isn´t gone", "the others is failing". Clearly, he´s looking to avoid the fee.
So the ESL is dead, but it will bring a lot of troubles for these 12 teams... Maybe they deserve it [:D]

warspite1

Well I'm guessing as I've no idea about the terms, but even based on 9 teams pulling out, that means JPM collect over 1bn for doing jack (it would be different once they actually dished out the cash).

But also I would have thought an exit fee would be at least partly payable to those clubs remaining, after all the viability of the project depends on the finance - but the finance depends on the income and the income depends on who is participating.

Difficult to see JPM scooping up a billion in profit for a project that never got off the ground and that they never actually shelled out money for. But what do I know....[:)]

What are UEFA playing at????

So Real Madrid are in the Champions League semi-finals. But despite everything, Perez is insisting that the ESL will still happen and that no one - including JPM - has withdrawn.

But the ESL is designed to destroy the Champions League and Perez is still insisting this will happen.

So WHY are UEFA acting like this???? Kick Real Madrid out now. To not do so makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I fear that lots of fine talk that got this thing stopped will prove to be just that... talk. If that happens then this thing will simply re-surface.

Madness.

I think that the rich teams and UEFA want to forget this shameful matter ASAP.

ORIGINAL: Piteas

I think that the rich teams and UEFA want to forget this shameful matter ASAP.

You said it.

ORIGINAL: Piteas

I think that the rich teams and UEFA want to forget this shameful matter ASAP.

warspite1

I disagree completely. Perez's comments spoke volumes. As far as the owners of these big clubs are concerned, this has not gone away. It's gone away in the format suggested, but the project is merely suspended.

As for UEFA, I think they want to forget it and move on - but don't have the sense and/or willingness to take practical action to ensure it can't happen again.

I just hope the Premier League/UK Government stick to their guns and follow through on the talk. As said previously, I have my doubts anything will happen.... and that will simply play into Perez and co's hands.

I think you are both correct. I think they want to forget this 'incident'. I even more so think that they want everyone else to forget about it. And I am even more sure that the leadership of the clubs involved are determined to create their own, closed, league, or tournament, as soon as it is practical to do so.

With that said they have wanted such a thing for a long time now. I once listened to Lennart Johansson speak, and he said that one of his biggest concerns, while president, was that top clubs would leave and create their own tournament. And that was one of the reasons (main reason?) he had in creating the Champions League format. He also was, as far as I recall, pleased that he had managed to keep European football together.

So this thingie has been brewing for a long, long, long time. And I do not think it will stop for such a minor hiccup.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Johansson

I'm still amazed by how they thought that they could pull it off just like that. Total tone deafness. From the pool I posted it would seem that they didn't were even in touch with their own supporters. Some English soccer fans are actually calling for a relegation of the involved clubs.

I'm a bit skeptic that they were able to maintain secrecy on something so big. Maybe UEFA or other sports' regulators got a sniff of what was about to happen but they also knew that such an attempt would be doomed from the start - so they let things go down the drain in their natural way. The level of public embarrassment for those involved it through the roof.

This picture from "The Guardian" is quite funny [:D]

Carabao Cup Final today. Manchester City equalled the highest FA Cup win - 6-0 last year. Can they equal or beat the record score for an English League Cup Final - 5-0 by Swansea against Bradford?

Sadly it is looking entirely possible [:(] What choices tax Ryan Mason?

Well a look at centre back alone gives a clear indication why I fear the worst this afternoon.... Dier, Sanchez, Alderweirald..... oh dear....

Oh well, there's always next year.

I bet Jose is laughing his little socks off.

This group of players are just useless. I mean once again they can't string three passes together, they send every free kick and throw in backwards, they pump the ball aimlessly up the pitch, they lose it cheaply time and again, they make mistakes time and again.

WE HAVE NO MIDFIELD. No matter who plays, we have no one to bring the ball from defence to attack.

Well they can't blame this total and utter negative, mistake-ridden dross on Jose can they?

There is always next year.

But why not support more local teams who will play for the fun of it instead of the big money?

Quality.

That should have been a cricket score.

At least it proves what many fans have known for some time - it doesn't matter the manager - this group of players are pathetic. Jose wasn't telling them to play that way - nor was Poch and I'm sure nor was Ryan. It's all they can do.

Please Harry, just leave. You are too good to be mucking around with this total dross. Four minutes to go, we need a goal... and Dier and Alderweirald kick the ball 5 times between them in our own half....sideways....

Did Alli actually kick the ball after he came on? Did Bergwijn? Why was Lucas taken off - at least he was trying.

And the goal? A needless free kick given away by Aurier (who else) and a free header....

It's not even losing that hurts the most (though of course it does hurt) - it's the gap - the chasm - in class between Spurs and decent sides.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

There is always next year.

But why not support more local teams who will play for the fun of it instead of the big money?

warspite1

You can't change your team. You nail your colours to the mast at an early age and then that's it, that's your team. No choice in the matter. That is the unwritten rule.

No time for those who change club. Where is the enjoyment in that? Where is the integrity? Your club is your club. They can ruin your entire weekend (and sometimes more) but your club is your club.

My Grandad, my dad, me, and now my little warspites. We may be rubbish, we may have stunk the place out everytime we've taken to the pitch in the last three years but...

COYS!!!!

I mean, go watch the children play, school teams as well. Don't spend any money on the big names until they take the game and the fans seriously.

Champions league was'the super league' already. Ceferin says "Uefa competitions needs Atalanta, Celtic, Rangers, Dinamo Zagreb and Galatasaray". Really? [8D]
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56815127

How many times Celtic is represented in Championbs league? despite being champion in their domestic league. Galatasaray was a winner in UEFA cup in 2000 against that Arsenal- Thierry Henry was playing-, but now even Turkish team doesn't care about that European cup, doesn't have any money now. Let's not trust the fans, seriously all the fans needs the best finance and top players. Your idea about supporting local teams much better. [;)]