Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: fuelli

ORIGINAL: borner

outnumbered 2-1, and inflict 20-1 losses. Congradulations! But yet another example of something I hope Matrix looks at.

Taking a look at the details I do not see very much of a problem here. First of all about 40 Tonys left the fighting after the first was shoot down...

I think that is the problem. 1 plane shot down and 40 run away. Come on... [&:]

xj900uk-The Ki61 Hien/Tony was actually a rough copy of the Me109, in fact when it first appeared US observers were convinced the JAAF was actually using Messerschmitts! Actually the airframe is pretty much Japanese design, but the engine was a direct licenced copy of the inverted fuel-injection Daimler so used by the Me's, I do also believe this was the only water-cooled in-line fighter to go into large-scale service with the JAAF during WWII, but I could be wrong.

At first they thought it was either Messerschmitts or something Italian. They did decide it was something Italian though, reason why codenamed ¨Tony¨

The frame was designed by Japanese specific to carry the licenced German engine Daimler Benz DB601Aa.

The plane had strong armor protection, good firepower and proved to be a superb fighter. A mixture of BF109E7 and A6M Zero. The equal of any Allied fighter until 1944´

RGIJN-Tony are rather impotent in UV anyway, though they were actually quite good fighters IRL. At least for IJA standards and compared with other "balsa" lightwight, no-punch and inflaming-soon types as the Ki-43 Hayabusa. I wonder if this particular A/C is modelled (slightly) too weak in the game?

Definate, too weak in UV.

True,  the Ki61 Hien/Tony should have been a superb fighter; decent armament,  good performance (particularly at high altitude), good dogfight manouevrability (although not quite as good as either the Oscar or the Zero) and a smidgen of armour protection which most other Jap fighters lacked, but it never was, neither did it see the widespread service throughout the Pacific that it deserved.  The reasons for its failure to make a great impact are given above - unreliable engine and shoddy airframe (both these are due to manufacturing faults rather than any intrinsic flaw in the design, which was fundamentally quite sound),  lack of replacement spares at forward airfields, and above all deep unpopularity with both pilots and the groundcrews.  Given a choice,  both would work with either the Oscar or the Zero,  despite both designs intrinsic weaknesses and approaching obsolesence 

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: fuelli

ORIGINAL: borner

outnumbered 2-1, and inflict 20-1 losses. Congradulations! But yet another example of something I hope Matrix looks at.

Taking a look at the details I do not see very much of a problem here. First of all about 40 Tonys left the fighting after the first was shoot down...

I think that is the problem. 1 plane shot down and 40 run away. Come on... [&:]

After reading the interesting excerpts about the Tony from xj900uk I may have an idea what happened there. After the first one was shoot down the other ones realised that someone has used their weapons as spare parts for the participating zeros and Oscars and decided that without weapons its useless to fight one and therfore left the area[:'(]

ORIGINAL: fuelli


After reading the interesting excerpts about the Tony from xj900uk I may have an idea what happened there. After the first one was shoot down the other ones realised that someone has used their weapons as spare parts for the participating zeros and Oscars and decided that without weapons its useless to fight one and therfore left the area[:'(]

Maybe... [X(] Although I think that when one plane is shot down, most of the rest don't even notice it...

IJA pilots:

There's a very interesting anecdotal story about one of the few Japanese aces to survive the war - have to look him up as I can't remember his name at the moment!  [:(].  He came from a very poor rural background and was undoubtably a fairly shoddy pilot, but towards the end of the war the Japanese were tryign desperately to get anything airborne that could fly in an effort to stop the Amercians & he got a uniform, a smidgen of training,  was shoved into a cockpit and told to go and die for the Emperor.  However,  in less than a year from 1944-45 flying Home Defence (not sure what planes) he managed to rack up at least 30 victories.  Nobody knows his true score, not even him, because he never learned to count beyond 30.
What makes him most interesting is that he never once lost a sense of his own over-importance and bearing,  as he would often go charging into battle with no guns or ammo and search out a 'worthy' opponent and try to ram them.  His ghost-written memoirs make fascinating reading, and have the ring of truth about them as on several occassions he complains bitterly that the US planes would either run away or else try to shoot him down from long range - neither of which was very sporting.  On another occassion he happened to come across a US reconissance plane and his guns jammed - he repeatedly tried to ram it until the US pilot, clearly terrified at the madman that was trying to occupy his airspace, simply baled out.
 
I must look up the chaps name as his autobiography makes fascinating reading and also for a time he served with Sabaru Sakai right at the end of the war

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: fuelli


After reading the interesting excerpts about the Tony from xj900uk I may have an idea what happened there. After the first one was shoot down the other ones realised that someone has used their weapons as spare parts for the participating zeros and Oscars and decided that without weapons its useless to fight one and therfore left the area[:'(]

Maybe... [X(] Although I think that when one plane is shot down, most of the rest don't even notice it...

IJA pilots:

If its the squadron leader they may notice....

Just looked the IJN ace up that I referred to above - his name was Akamatsu & he survived the war with at least 50 victories (nobody knows his true figure as he couldn't count & many could not be verified as he was all too often the only survivor from his flight to get back to base alive).  In 1944-45 whilst flying Home Defence he piloted a Raiden/Jack/Thunderbolt, a heavy fighter armed with 4 x 20mm cannon designed to climb quickly & get amongst the ranks of the B29's, yet lacking in manouverability & dog-fighting skills.  however it is wildly accepted that Akamatsu would always seek out the bomber escort, usually Mustangs or more rarely Hellcats if the USN was involved, & mix it with the more manoueverable fighters.  As Sakai himself writes, no matter how many bullet holes his mount sustained,  Ajamatsu would always come back, usually the only defence pilot to do so,  with a big grin & at least one finger stuck up in the air to signify a victory, nearly always over a P51 or F6F.
 

On the Me-109 thing.
Ever read "The big E" I have had this book since high school 30+ years ago.
Carried in my pack around the world while in the Corp's. Early in book maybe coral sea battle
a pilot says he shot down me-109. I know its anecdotal but I have always wondered why the admiral who wrote the book
would put this in??
 
sneaky as 03walksalot

Couldn't be the Tony/Ki-61 as it wasn't yet deployed.  Doubt it was even the Judy (an inline engined divebomber) as that too didn't appear (as a spotter plane in limited numbers) until Santa Cruz in the fall of '42, so that wasn't at the Coral Sea.  I suppose it is possible that during '42 in the South Pacific a US pilot shot down one of the advanced types,  not sure when the Tony/Ki-61 first appeared,  can you remember the date the pilot claimed the kill?

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

Couldn't be the Tony/Ki-61 as it wasn't yet deployed.  Doubt it was even the Judy (an inline engined divebomber) as that too didn't appear (as a spotter plane in limited numbers) until Santa Cruz in the fall of '42, so that wasn't at the Coral Sea. 

IIRC, the Judy made it´s first appearance at Midway when HIJMAS carrier SORYU had 2 D4Y1 acting as scout bombers aboard. Both were lost during that action.

Thanks for that, although I actually meant when the early Judy (D4Y1) appeared in the South-West Pacific theatre.  Only a few early Judy's ever saw service as it was too structurally weak for dive-bombing and only had a limited range (as opposed to the float planes) for spotting duties.  It was re-designed to have more integral strength for dive-bombing, but production problems delayed it's arrival as the D4Y2 until '44 - by the time of the Marianas Turkey shoot the IJN was still using the quite outdated Val a lot of the time, although I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong) some of the smaller carriers couldn't take the fully laden Judy so carried on operating the Val

I agree, you´re right in this Chris.

BTW, one of this war´s very last missions included several D4Y Suisei "Judy" attack a/c, when on August 15th 1945 the well-known IJN Admiral Ugaki Matome took off with some other pilots (IIRC it was flight of 10 or 11) to seek his death in attempting another last Kamikaze attack.
He was found dead some time later with his plane shot down...

attached is the last known picture of him when standing in front of "his" A/C. (he stripped himself of his ranks and forced another pilot to fly him into doom)

Thanx 4 the pic - big plane!  Bigger than the Val (which I've flown in)
 
BTW, thought that Matome's final flight on August 15th 1945 was still a bit of a mystery - we know he took off on the last 'unofficial' kamikaze mission, but I always thought no trace of the planes was ever found & there is no record even in the US archives of beating off a kamikaze attack on that day.

I think it´s described en detail in Ugaki´s diary. Will have a look into this book later tonight.
He was definately found ashore with his A/C, I remember.

Washing machine charly over Noumea. At night, of course... I hope this bomb struck the hangars really bad[;)]

last two months finally began...



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 11/03/43

Weather: Clear

Air attack on Noumea , at 52,67

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9
G4M2 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 13
P-39D Airacobra x 12
P-40E Kittyhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty x 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty x 1 damaged
G4M2 Betty x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Bomb hits 1
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 1


Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Attacking Level Bombers:
4 x G4M1 Betty at 8000 feet
10 x G4M2 Betty at 7000 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Wewak , at 2,26


Allied aircraft
PBY Catalina x 2
Hudson x 22
Beaufort x 32
A-20G Havoc x 15
A-20G Boston x 5


no losses

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 104
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 47


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Rennell Island , at 38,45


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24J Liberator x 18


no losses

Runway hits 16


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Nevea , at 50,43


Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 55
TBF Avenger x 18
P-40E Kittyhawk x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 24


no losses

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 38

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 16



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3 Zero x 9
A6M5 Zeke x 6
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 15
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 6
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 29
B-25J Mitchell x 1

one of my enemies specials - one bomber plus escort...

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning x 1 destroyed

1LT G.Dunnigan of 67th FS is credited with kill number 9

LCDR W.Katagi of AII-1 Daitai is KILLED

Japanese Ships
AP Syoka Maru

Attacking Level Bombers:
1 x B-25J Mitchell at 8000 feet
0 x B-25J Mitchell at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
A6M3 Zero x 7
A6M5 Zeke x 6
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 6
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 17

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 16
PB4Y Liberator x 10

no losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator x 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Tokai Maru
AP Shinano Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Toho Maru
TK Teiyo Maru
PC Tama Maru #8


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3 Zero x 4
A6M5 Zeke x 9
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 9
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 9
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 17

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 35
B-25J Mitchell x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 4 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke x 3 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 3 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning x 1 destroyed
P-38J Lightning x 1 damaged

1LT G.Dunnigan of 67th FS is credited with kill number 11

LCDR T.Nakajima of AII-1 Daitai is KILLED

Japanese Ships
AP Syoka Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Shinano Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
A6M5 Zeke x 6
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 16

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 14
PB4Y Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 2 damaged


Japanese Ships
PC Tama Maru #8
AP Tokai Maru
TK Toho Maru
AP Shinano Maru, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ORIGINAL: RGIJN


Air attack on TF, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3 Zero x 9
A6M5 Zeke x 6
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 15
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 6
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 29
B-25J Mitchell x 1

one of my enemies specials - one bomber plus escort...

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning x 1 destroyed

1LT G.Dunnigan of 67th FS is credited with kill number 9

LCDR W.Katagi of AII-1 Daitai is KILLED

Japanese Ships
AP Syoka Maru

Attacking Level Bombers:
1 x B-25J Mitchell at 8000 feet
0 x B-25J Mitchell at 8000 feet

Do not blame me. There were more then 100 ordered to attack....[8|]

Daily barge kill today: six. Another night raid to Noumea (I forget to set the Betties back from attack) resulted in losses for nothing. Bad weather sets in.

wow, it is really long ago that my I-boats scored a hit... Unfortunately only a tiny minelayer was the victim here[:(]