Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: UP844
Am I reading the map wrong, or there is no railway line along the Adriatic (eastern) coast?? [X(]

Yeah, there's no rails in that area and so there's no way to increase the supply levels in that
area so I'm thinking of shifting the effort to the west side or the middle and just babysit this
side. Good catch my friend.

ORIGINAL: UP844

Am I reading the map wrong, or there is no railway line along the Adriatic (eastern) coast?? [X(]

If it is any help...apart from the numerous bit Larry has blown up...there is an East coast line all the way down to the Gustav Line but nothing in the short stretch between there and Foggia Airbase.

The railway along the whole east coast had been there since 1864 [;)], and was a primary target for the Austrian Navy during WW1. It was the main supply line for the British Army from the port of Bari (later, also from Ancona, even though Bari remained the main supply port, for both the 8th Army and the 15th Air Force).

Perhaps it was a designer choice, and I am unable to understand the reason behind it [&:]. Certainly it greatly restricts operations along the East Coast.

The supply will come via the rails no matter where you are. You correct to focus on the center and west until you clear those rail lines of the Hun. Once you do take Sulmona and everything west of it, supply jumps back up to 30. I wouldn't try to do anything in a hex where supply is less than 10 except hold or even fall back to a line of 10's. You'll bleed out pretty quickly. Sardinia is that way. The supply port is down at the bottom and the objective is way at the top. I had to shuttle units to Anzio to re-supply because Axis units popped up like rabbits over there.

I managed to get the South African tank unit off Elba by splitting into 3 units and shipping them individually.

It appears that I'm going to take delivery of the US 91st Infantry Division at
Reggio on the next turn. They are so close I think the rail will do the trip
in one turn, either that or I can ship them a piece at a time because my rail cap
is 9449 of 10000, plenty for an infantry division. Not much travels by rail any
longer.

I gotta remember to ask Ian if my bombing of his bridges is effecting his supply
levels at the front line or not. Just curious.

ORIGINAL: UP844
The railway along the whole east coast had been there since 1864 [;)], and was a primary target for the Austrian Navy during WW1. It was the main supply line for the British Army from the port of Bari (later, also from Ancona, even though Bari remained the main supply port, for both the 8th Army and the 15th Air Force).

Perhaps it was a designer choice, and I am unable to understand the reason behind it [&:]. Certainly it greatly restricts operations along the East Coast.

I'm starting to wonder if it's not a scenario bug. It's 1944...surely there would be ports and a rail along the east coast. The tactical situation cries out for it.

ORIGINAL: hingram
The supply will come via the rails no matter where you are. You correct to focus on the center and west until you clear those rail lines of the Hun. Once you do take Sulmona and everything west of it, supply jumps back up to 30. I wouldn't try to do anything in a hex where supply is less than 10 except hold or even fall back to a line of 10's. You'll bleed out pretty quickly. Sardinia is that way. The supply port is down at the bottom and the objective is way at the top. I had to shuttle units to Anzio to re-supply because Axis units popped up like rabbits over there.

I managed to get the South African tank unit off Elba by splitting into 3 units and shipping them individually.

Wow, sounds great. I gave up on Sardinia because I'm trying to follow the red green yellow rule and
I don't possess a unit that can drive all the way to the top of Sardinia without turning red. No go.
If I ever get any paratroopers maybe I'll drop 'em in the north and let them march their way to the supply source in the south.

And about the SA armour unit on Elba...I just now took a look and there's no units there if it's mine.
If it belongs to Ian still the units could be invisible. No wait, I'll check and see if there's any Allied supply there. Yeah, it's Allied and there's no tank unit there. I must have moved it early in the game. I just called up the OOB and sorted on icon type and scrolled down to the tanks and I found a 6th SA tank unit and it's with it's formation in the middle of the map. It's moving from the east coast eonflict to the far SW corner of the Gustov Line because it's an armour division it belongs to.

Speaking of the SW corner of the Gustov Line, my attacking has gained a hex and now on the second conbat round I need to somehow brush the Germans out of the way so I can drive my tanks into his backfield. Several divisions are headed for the spot including the 1st British Armor Division who are moving north from Naples as we spek. I'll put together a picture to show you.

This is the situation at the SW corner of the Gustov Line and this is right after the
first combat round and CCB and CCR are about to advance into the recently vacanted hex
to see if they can continue the pushing and shoving with success. I'm relying on the
CS crews to help out and they are. The ground arty isn't insignificant either. I've
got some of the Corps tubes within range of the Germans and I'm using the 'T' setting
so that I can continue to move them as needed for the range of targets available. I've
let the arty build up their supply to 150 before I fire on the Germans so that my arty
is more or less ready to go at a moment's notice to fulfill a need here or there. I
moved one of the dedicated RR engineer units from the east side to the west side and he's
been busy repairing rail and the supply levels are slowly increasing. There may be a way
to make this work after all.

The supply levels have been badly affected by the bridges being dropped Larry, so don't worry about that !

I am scared to open my turn now....looks like Rome is now very vulnerable !

31st May 1944

As we enter June there is a dramatic turn of events as the Gustav Line is breached by a devastating assault by the US 36th and 1st Armoured Division in the far West and the road to Terracino, Littorio and the southern suburbs of Rome is almost totally open.

Small tactical reserves of armour have been moved in to try and delay the US tanks but with low expectations of success.

Only the next turn will the German Armour and strong 16th Panzer Grenadier Division start to arrive and I now have yet another difficult decision to make...do I rush them as they arrive to the front and risk being destroyed in detail or do I marshall them in formation north of Florence and bolster the last prepared fortified line ? In This case the existing mobile units on the Gustav Line further West which are still holding would have to conduct a very difficult fighting withdrawal to avoid being outflanked.....a manoeuvre I am now aware Larry is VERY keen on !

In the short term I am throwing a very small "kitchen sink" at the problem South of Rome and the rest of the Gustav Line troops will try and hold on for now.....

This would give

This is the front lines in T95 and I'm told there are 97 more turns to go so this
is about half way through the game. I haven't moved anybody yet so shortly it's
going to look a little different. I'm removing everybody but a skeleton staff on
the east side and troops are moving to and fro over there. On the west side I seem
to have started something with the 1st Armored Diviison and the 1st British Armored
Division is there now and wants to participate. The supply levels are almost adequate
for operations so I'm going to give the go ahead for the operation to capture Rome.
Let's call it Operation Shiny Chevy. I think it'll take at least three months
because of the terrible terrain, low supply, and fierce resistance.

The railway along the whole east coast had been there since 1864

Thanks for the intel Carlo. Maps are sometimes incomplete and us foreigners have no way of knowing what is where. Also, often we find that some of these scenarios that were originally designed 20 years ago were handicapped by not having the sources readily available that we have today. That is the case with this one, but the original design was so good it seemed a nice idea for us to give it a little attention.

Given your knowledge of the rail line, would you suggest adding it to the area between Foggia and Pescara, along the same line as the improved road that runs thru Lanciano-Vasto-Termoli ?

Here's the supply situation for the SW corner of the Gustov Line and parts of it are
good and part aren't up to code yet. It's not going to get better until the rails are
closer and they are being repaired day and night. I'm going to review my RR engineer
location policy and see if I need to move one from one side to the other. I'd like
the middle to have more supply especially.

I've been moving units and this is what the east side looks like right mow. Not everybody
has moved yet and the first combat round hasn't been triggered yet I thought I'd give you
a snap shot of the lines as they are changing.

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Thanks for the intel Carlo. Maps are sometimes incomplete and us foreigners have no way of knowing what is where.
...
Given your knowledge of the rail line, would you suggest adding it to the area between Foggia and Pescara, along the same line as the improved road that runs thru Lanciano-Vasto-Termoli ?

I'm glad to be able to provide information to improve the scenario [;)].

As regards to the railway route, following the road should be accurate enough for game purposes; from Termoli, the rail line goes to San Severo and then to Foggia. Unfortunately, Google Earth/Maps does not provide accurate data since many parts of the current route follow a different alignment, as in the last 20 years the railway has been doubled and improved to allow higher speeds, moving it inland and abandoning the old right of way.

I am trying to find some reference about the use of the port of Ancona after it was taken by the Allied, but so far I had no luck [:(]

Here's the west side after two combat resolutions. I gained a couple of hexes and
it looks like I'll soon have enough room in the footprint gained for two separate
division's units and really make some progress. The supply levels are good because
of the proximity of the railhead and I'm optimistic about the next couple of turns.

4th June 1944

Larry's offensive towards Rome shows no sign of slowing with the battered German FJ and Panzer Grenadiers who had been holding the now breached Gustav Line streaming back towards Littorio desperately blowing bridges as they go. The few elements of Armour available in Rome trundle out to meet them and try and patch a defence together.

The 16th Panzer Grenadier Division is fearfully bombed as it tries to race down from the North with the aid of repaired bridges so it is unlikely it will get there in time.

Across the rest of the front relative stability continues but how relevant this will prove is uncertain.....

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

The railway along the whole east coast had been there since 1864

Thanks for the intel Carlo. Maps are sometimes incomplete and us foreigners have no way of knowing what is where. Also, often we find that some of these scenarios that were originally designed 20 years ago were handicapped by not having the sources readily available that we have today. That is the case with this one, but the original design was so good it seemed a nice idea for us to give it a little attention.

Given your knowledge of the rail line, would you suggest adding it to the area between Foggia and Pescara, along the same line as the improved road that runs thru Lanciano-Vasto-Termoli ?

If you're interested in period maps I found an official history funded by the USAF that includes maps of what they considered the most important rail lines at the time.

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/II ... ap_457.jpg
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/II ... ap_338.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/II/ ... I-p505.jpg

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/II ... l#contents
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/II ... l#contents

Great stuff guys,

Ian, that is going to be a tough decision - you likely do not have enough forces to risk losing too many of them.

Larry, I really like the idea of selecting a main effort on the West and breaking out there.

Have a good day,

If you're interested in period maps

Thanks very much Dan! I don't think I am interested in redoing the entire map [not that you said I should], but if there are items that affect play I am up for adjustments.

I love those HyperWar pages, they have tons of official military reports for reading stuff that really applies to scenario design.

7th June 1944

Well I held on to Rome past the historic Liberation date !! A very minor ray of light in the darkening gloom

Larry pushed another hole in the Gothic Line, this time in the centre, knocking back a Panzer Grenadier Regiment at St Elia and forcing it back towards Arpino. This is less of a concern for me as the terrain beyond it is poor and roads tend to run East/West rather than North/South in this part of the map.

Rome is another story. Whilst one decently strong Panzer Grenadier Regiment has finally arrived from the 16th Division the other units are still battling south suffering interdiction losses and blown rails. The advance on Rome is being paused by Larry a little while he mops up the trapped elements of the original line that was overrun.I have a rudimentary line NW of Littorio but little else other than the SS static Division to defend the Italian capital for now.

To add to the fun Larry has decided running cruise ships full of troops to the south of France would be fun so I am now having to divert some troops to try and avert a further incursion from the French Alps ...it never rains but it pours

On the west coast he seems to have totally halted operations for now so the embedded artillery decided to take advantage and incurred 20% losses or so on a Moroccan Free French Infantry Brigade holding the Allied line.