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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Careful Brazilian case/control study of Hydroxychloroquine halted because of dangerous arrhythmias in the high dose group (600 mg twice a day).

There was a convincing incidence of ventricular tachycardia

The patients still alive were converted to 450 twice a day. This is why you need the science instead of listening to prophets.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... tification

That would be absurd, and we'd actually have to make elected officials listen to expert medical opinion.

Based on past experience I'm going to guess you mean Trump. The thing is he DID listen to the advisers. There is an NIH study in the US. There is some value in elected officials offering some hope and keeping spirits up.

‘Worst Is Over,’ Cuomo Says as 7 States Ally to Reopen Economy: Live Updates
1 hr ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/worst ... li=BBnbcA1



"The governors of six Eastern states will cooperate on reopening.

The governors of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Delaware said on Monday that they would work together to plan for reopening the region’s economies, schools and other important elements."

"Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York said that health and economic officials from the six states were starting work immediately on developing strategies for easing restrictions that have brought much of daily life to a halt."

NIH is funding a 10,000 pt serological survey (blood antibody test) on volunteers.

This should help determine what the true penetration of the disease is and offer insight into asymptomatic disease

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Careful Brazilian case/control study of Hydroxychloroquine halted because of dangerous arrhythmias in the high dose group (600 mg twice a day).

There was a convincing incidence of ventricular tachycardia

The patients still alive were converted to 450 twice a day. This is why you need the science instead of listening to prophets.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... tification

That would be absurd, and we'd actually have to make elected officials listen to expert medical opinion.

Based on past experience I'm going to guess you mean Trump. The thing is he DID listen to the advisers. There is an NIH study in the US. There is some value in elected officials offering some hope and keeping spirits up.

I was thinking more of Brazil and Bolsonaro.

As for Trump and his advisers, his comments on Covid 19 throughout March are well known. Evidently he had a change of heart or decided to listen at some point in mid-March.

As for elected officials keeping spirits up, I'd settle for qualified officials resolving the problem in the most effective manner. Would be far more soothing.

How under reported are death rates for COVID-19?
From the Economist.

Posting short article below without nifty graphs as the link is probably behind a paywall.

Gist of article is deaths by Cardiac Arrest in NYC has gone from 30 a day to over 200 a day. Calls to 911 for cardiac arrests have gone from around 80 per day to 315 perday.
It would be interesting to know if other cities also experience changes like this. We will have to wait until this is done to get a proper accounting of the deaths.


NO CITY IN America has been hit by covid-19 as hard as New York. By April 12th, according to official statistics, more than 6,000 people had died. This is over a quarter of all deaths in the whole country. There is some cause for hope: new reported covid-19 cases and deaths in the city both appear to be falling. Modelling by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, a research group at the University of Washington, suggests that New York state’s covid-19 epidemic may have passed its peak.

But when the final death toll is reported, it may be bigger than current data would suggest. A recent report from WNYC and The Gothamist, two New York media outlets, notes that the city’s official covid-19 fatality statistics have until recently excluded those who died in their homes, and therefore were never diagnosed with the virus. Exactly how many people are missing from the tally is unclear. One clue comes from the number of people calling 911 about cardiac arrests, a known consequence of covid-19.

According to data from the city’s fire department, New Yorkers are making four times as many emergency calls about cardiac arrests as they did last year. The most recent figures show that about 200 of these heart-attack victims are being pronounced dead at the scene each day, up from around 30 this time last year (see chart). It is plausible that some of these people were not victims of covid-19. Had hospitals not been so overwhelmed, they might otherwise have sought care early enough in person at emergency rooms, when they had their first symptoms, before things got bad enough to call an ambulance. Even so, the figures suggest that New York City (and possibly other places) may be drastically underestimating the number of people killed by the novel coronavirus.

The city has since announced that it will revise its covid-19 death count to include people who are likely to have died from the disease but who were never formally tested. Mortality statistics from governments tend to be reported with a significant time-lag. Officials might not know the full public-health impact of covid-19 until months after it has faded.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Careful Brazilian case/control study of Hydroxychloroquine halted because of dangerous arrhythmias in the high dose group (600 mg twice a day).

There was a convincing incidence of ventricular tachycardia

The patients still alive were converted to 450 twice a day. This is why you need the science instead of listening to prophets.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... tification

That would be absurd, and we'd actually have to make elected officials listen to expert medical opinion.

Based on past experience I'm going to guess you mean Trump. The thing is he DID listen to the advisers. There is an NIH study in the US. There is some value in elected officials offering some hope and keeping spirits up.

+1

Shame both the UK and the US decided to take a different route for a couple of weeks.

if they hadn't (and I guess both had different reasons for doing it) then the death rate would be even lower than some of the more optimistic predictions in here.

Can't help noticing that the comments on media exaggeration appear to be limited to news organisations that are critical of the current US administration as well.

Its continues to be a very informative thread though

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... 1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

ORIGINAL: Encircled

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... 1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

That may be a genuine question but that devolves into politics.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Encircled

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... 1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

That may be a genuine question but that devolves into politics.

warspite1

Why so? It's just a question about what a President is empowered to do that could override what a state would normally have control of. Does the President (any President) have such powers? I can't see that is political.

For Canoerebel, in relation to points raised previously on input control and accurate reporting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Encircled

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... 1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

That may be a genuine question but that devolves into politics.

warspite1

Why so? It's just a question about what a President is empowered to do that could override what a state would normally have control of. Does the President (any President) have such powers? I can't see that is political.

It's a legal question if any, but the selective "no political discussion" exemption will be applied as there's a strong "the emperor has no clothes" vibe on this thread at times.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... 1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

Well, and the constitutional checks and balances of the congress and courts.

Context people.

Taken alone, it is a ridiculous assertion but it wasn't meant to be taken alone. It was a response to a SPECIFIC question about lock-down rollbacks and governors making that call.

Is the criticism political? Hell yes it is. Mario the Pious (Cuomo) is the same guy who was bashing Trump and FEMA for not sending him 30,000 ventilators (which was WAAAY more than he needed and FEMA didn't even have that many) and now he wants to secede from the Union with New Jersey and Connecticut and Rhode Island decide when to reverse the Federal lock down order? Is he going to send the NYPD to bombard the Statue of Liberty? Do they have a flag yet? They will have to make one because the Stars and Bars are taken. I suggest the Yankee logo on a blue background.

Instituting a lockdown--not popular

Taking off the lockdown--winner, winner, chicken dinner!

Confederate States of the Northeast Corridor

2020

Mario the Pious, President for Life[:D]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Context people.

Taken alone, it is a ridiculous assertion but it wasn't meant to be taken alone. It was a response to a SPECIFIC question about lock-down rollbacks and governors making that call.

Is the criticism political? Hell yes it is. Mario the Pious (Cuomo) is the same guy who was bashing Trump and FEMA for not sending him 30,000 ventilators (which was WAAAY more than he needed and FEMA didn't even have that many) and now he wants to secede from the Union with New Jersey and Connecticut and Rhode Island decide when to reverse the Federal lock down order? Is he going to send the NYPD to bombard the Statue of Liberty? Do they have a flag yet? They will have to make one because the Stars and Bars are taken. I suggest the Yankee logo on a blue background.

Sorry, but even with the context it still doesn't cut it.

You would think on a country that takes great pride in its democratic traditions would produce a leader that's a little more in tune with those principles...

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Context people.

Taken alone, it is a ridiculous assertion but it wasn't meant to be taken alone. It was a response to a SPECIFIC question about lock-down rollbacks and governors making that call.

Is the criticism political? Hell yes it is. Mario the Pious (Cuomo) is the same guy who was bashing Trump and FEMA for not sending him 30,000 ventilators (which was WAAAY more than he needed and FEMA didn't even have that many) and now he wants to secede from the Union with New Jersey and Connecticut and Rhode Island decide when to reverse the Federal lock down order? Is he going to send the NYPD to bombard the Statue of Liberty? Do they have a flag yet? They will have to make one because the Stars and Bars are taken. I suggest the Yankee logo on a blue background.

Sorry, but even with the context it still doesn't cut it.

You would think on a country that takes great pride in its democratic traditions would produce a leader that's a little more in tune with those principles...

I didn't invent the National Emergency Act of 1976. That would be the Dem controlled Congress and signed into law by Gerald Ford.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act

Here is the actual law

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

It DOES seem over-broad to me but nobody called me for advice in 1976 and even if they did they would have had to leave a message with my mom.