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On turn 15 (9/25/41) the 4th Pz Grp got to the outskirts of Pushkin while 18th Army liquidated the pocket along the coast.  Pushkin is well defended and the Soviets have built level 5 fortifications there so we'll need some Luftwaffe help before assaulting the place.

AGC made more progress to the southwest of Moscow but I don't like the looks of this bulge at all.  We can survive it if Mud comes but it is likely our weakly defended flanks wold crumble in Blizzard turns and most of the bulge forces would find themselves isolated.  I'm pushing the Soviets back where sufficient force permits along both flanks but it is slow going.  Unless we can convince them to make a withdrawal to shorten out lines soon we may be faced with pulling back from Moscow and giving up a lot of hard earned ground.  Even if we take Moscow before the Blizzards come we need to fix the bulge problem. Otherwise Moscow could be our Stalingrad this game.

Soviet forces did make a withdrawal of their forces south of Kiev to shorten their lines, except for one stack that lagged behind for some reason.  We isolated them and should have no trouble mopping them up next turn.  Whoever suggested forming a line along the Dnepr gets my vote.  Pushing further east at this point is risky so we will clear as many of the Soviets still west of the Dnepr as we can in the next few turns and get ready for the bad weather.  We'll keep some forces east of the river near Kiev of course and possibly secure a couple of bridgeheads elsewhere for renewed operations next Spring.

elmo,

The soviet stack south-west of Leningrad has an Inf unit with a defense value of 71. Could that figure - whether it's an estimate or not - decrease and be visible after an air attack AND prior to any ground attack ?

The Rumanians and 11th Army continue to keep up the pressure to the far south.

ORIGINAL: Balou

elmo,

The soviet stack south-west of Leningrad has an Inf unit with a defense value of 71. Could that figure - whether it's an estimate or not - decrease and be visible after an air attack AND prior to any ground attack ?

All three units in that stack (1st, 28th, and 81st Inf Divs) have detection levels of 10 so we have all the information we will get. Their strength is an estimate but probably a pretty good one. Hopefully a couple of air attacks will soften them up next turn. Remind me to show the air results if I forget.

Someone asked about how long it takes for the AI to move and I may have guessed at 5 minutes plus or minus.  I'd say it's closer to 10 minutes.  Not sure if I was just optimistic before or if the AI does more thinking now.

Losses through turn 15:

And for turn 16 weather in Zone 4 is Mud.  That includes the area from Smolensk to Moscow.  [:(]

Where did this info came from ? It just wouldn't make sense.

In the Q&A thread, jaw replied to one of my questions about moving factories with the following statement:

There is no relationship between the location of a factory and the output of production since everything produced goes into one big abstact pool. When you re-locate a factory you want to re-locate it to some place where it will never have to be moved again so the further from the front lines the better.

The rail transport cost is based on the size of the thing your moving not the distance. A normal unit has a maximum rail move of 100 hexes but I'm not sure that is true for factories also. I'll have to note that the next time I move one in the current game I'm testing as the Russian and get back to you.

It seems the rail transport system is all about what you're moving, not how far you're moving it.

Lee you will have an ugly winter with those flanks...I don't think you ate up enough Soviet units in you game either...

Yeah I have to figure something out quickly.

Very nice that it does show the problems with a "full-blooded thrust" directly to Moscow. Gives a big reason for cleaning up the lines & pushing forward on a broader front (which, unfortunately has major disadvantages of its own).

Time to send Von Rippentrop back to Moscow?
This is about the time when Stalin offered (via Sweden) Hitler a ceasefire in place. Hitler, of course, would have none of it.

It seems the rail transport system is all about what you're moving, not how far you're moving it.

Well, if it has been decided to handle factory movement that way it definitly supports Sov Sir Robin(ovich) strategies in 1941. Maybe the dev team could limit the NUMBER of factories that can be evacuated per turn, otherwise there we would too much magic within rail transport mechanics.

Time to send Von Rippentrop back to Moscow?
This is about the time when Stalin offered (via Sweden) Hitler a ceasefire in place. Hitler, of course, would have none of it.

Maybe elmo should hit the "ambassador" button [;)]

Well, if it has been decided to handle factory movement that way it definitly supports Sov Sir Robin(ovich) strategies in 1941. Maybe the dev team could limit the NUMBER of factories that can be evacuated per turn, otherwise there we would too much magic within rail transport mechanics.

If a factory requires, say, 10 times as many rail transport points as a Rifle division, there's a certain balance between losing factories and slowing the Axis advance, or not slowing the Axis advance to the same extent and losing less factories. It wouldn't be entirely historical, as it would have been possible for STAVKA to think: screw this, we can't defend this line, let's evacuate everything and move less men in.

I do agree that not having distance factored into rail transport costs could screw things up rather badly.

Yea Lee..I would love to be in the Soviet shoes right now, I see several places in your line where I would try and crack your line, and I give it a high probablity of doing so trapping most of your AGC combat power.

Someone should encourage him to switch sides for a few turns.

LOL, Andy is seeing Warsaw in spring....Lee the flanks are going kill you. Lee is a newbe and you guys can see the game is challanging. Andy is our explot the game guy, me I would like to think I'm next... I just took Gorky and Saratov in my 42 test, the game is still needing some tweeking, but it's alot of fun...I may post some ss's...Ah maybe not...Only if theres requests...

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

LOL, Andy is seeing Warsaw in spring....Lee the flanks are going kill you. Lee is a newbe and you guys can see the game is challanging. Andy is our explot the game guy, me I would like to think I'm next... I just took Gorky and Saratov in my 42 test, the game is still needing some tweeking, but it's alot of fun...I may post some ss's...Ah maybe not...Only if theres requests...

...and speaking of requests - please accept this as my formal request for some of your AAR's too thanks PD.

On the issue of the SOV AI -- how do you re-create the pessimism and defeatism that became a self-perpuating event, increasing losses and further lowering morale during that 1941 summer -> winter period?

And then, of course, this 'crippling effect' has to be gradually withdrawn/minimized from the SOV AI, as it learns the hard lessons from the blitzkreig.

Exactly how complex is this task so that you get the correct ingame balance?

cheers