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The optimistic interpretation of your "bloody failure" is that if you don't have any failures, you're being too conservative. In this case it looks like the Germans overreached as well in their counterattack and they lost a lot of good tanks and good men that will be hard to replace. Overall, it looks like you're caught for the time being in a very bloody phase where you have to attack hard, for a long time, until the Germans are worn down enough to make their front lines more brittle. In this your game is capturing the brutal nature of this conflict very well, but it's going to be really rough for both sides for a long time.

Kudos for the great AAR -- your pictures and your maps are great as usual!

ORIGINAL: jwolf

The optimistic interpretation of your "bloody failure" is that if you don't have any failures, you're being too conservative. In this case it looks like the Germans overreached as well in their counterattack and they lost a lot of good tanks and good men that will be hard to replace. Overall, it looks like you're caught for the time being in a very bloody phase where you have to attack hard, for a long time, until the Germans are worn down enough to make their front lines more brittle. In this your game is capturing the brutal nature of this conflict very well, but it's going to be really rough for both sides for a long time.

Kudos for the great AAR -- your pictures and your maps are great as usual!

yes this is very much the attrition phase, I'm too weak to win and the Germans are too strong to lose ... key is when and where we pass into the next phase.

broadly, I'm trading off losses (both combat and destroyed units) to gain space, seems to be working but its a grim process.

I *like* it that vigabrand looks to counterattack, it makes for a more interesting mid-game than someone setting up exactly straight lines and counting off the hexes to Berlin. I don't like it so much when it pays off for him (as it will ... spoiler alert), but his losses hurt, mine just dictate my admin pt allocation strategy for a few turns. I have pretty much the army size I want at this phase (around 8m) so no longer having to pour every spare admin pt into simply filling out the gaps in my armies.

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: c00per

Excellent AAR

thank you

your welcome

Turn 113: 12 – 18 August 1943

As was the nature of the summer fighting. Sectors flared up into vicious combat and then went quiet as either the Germans retreated or the Soviets switched targets [1].

The Battle for Kharkov

After the defeat in the Dombas, Stavka turned its attention to the idea of an offensive aimed directly at Kharkov. Strategically this would have the advantage of combining with the attacks of Voronezh and Bryansk Fronts to the north. Tactically, the small bridgehead carved out the previous week gave an excellent jumping off spot for the cavalry and mechanised formations of North Caucasus Front.

In addition, Soviet reconnaissance indicated that the German Panzers were still in reserve in the Dombas.

Southern Front opened the offensive and quickly carved out a 30 mile long bridgehead over the Donets. The infantry of North Caucasus Front then deepened the gap in the German lines.



With the German front line broken, and no local reserves available. the Soviet mobile formations struck.



By the end of the week, the Soviets were up to 20km to the west of the Donets and had reached the outskirts of Kharkov.




(Soviet tanks advancing near Kharkov)

The Battle for Sumy

To the north, the Germans had pulled back after failing to destroy 1 Tank Army. While Central Front was able to screen the northern flank of their forces at Belgorod, the rest of Voronezh Front struck towards Sumy.


(SU-85 in action near Sumy)

To add to the threat to the German communications back to Kiev, Bryansk Front was able to cross the Seym.

The mounting Soviet threat to their communications increased when Volkhov and Western Front commenced an offensive towards Gomel.





The Dvina battles

In the north, Kalinin Front launched its first attack on the German defensive line between Vitebsk and Orsha. However, an attempt to exploit this failed when the German reserves intervened.



North of the Dvina, North-Western Front was again able to disrupt the German front. However, South-Western Front again ran into fierce resistance and was unable to break the German lines along to the Poltava.



OOB



As the fighting spread, the losses increased. The Germans lost 34,000 men (15,000 kia), 50 tanks and 170 planes and the Soviets 54,000 men 929,000 kia), 560 tanks (mostly T-70s) and 400 planes (100 U2s in a disastrous attack on the Finnish airbases).


[1] – my logic is that on one sector I will have the advantage (and of course this will shift), on another the Germans will be strong enough to stop me from even attacking successfully and on the others I'll make gains and lose most of them to counterattacks. Roughly at the moment, along the Poltava I'm not even really making gains (but there are a lot of German troops there), on the other hand NW Front seems to be facing little resistance and I was very surprised at the gap/lack of troops around Gomel-Chernigov.

With this point of view, I don't expect to hold onto my gains at Kharkov, but it stops the Germans concentrating on the Sumy offensive (which is more important as that is the direct route to Kiev).

I'll take the losses where I either fail to make any gains (or am driven back) in return for the geographical gains elsewhere. In my view, this phase is all about setting up the winter 43/44 battles with the frozen rivers.

Turn 114: 19 – 25 August 1943

At Gomel, the Germans struck back at Volkhov Front but perhaps under-estimated the threat posed by Western Front. By concentrating to the west of Gomel, they had exposed not just Chernigov but potentially Kiev.



To the north, the German lines between Vitebsk and Orsha were battered by the elite formations of Kalinin Front. Backed by the largest artillery barrage of the war, 24 Army managed to advance to the northern outskirts of Orsha itself, despite counter-attacks by elements of 57 Panzer Corps.




(elements of 24 Army near Orsha)

North of the Dvina, the Germans had pulled back, allowing North-Western Front to push some 50 miles along the river, threatening to isolate Vitebsk. However, South-Western Front was still unable to force the Poltava.

Despite the importance of the gains along the Dvina, the main drama was around Gomel. Volkhov Front regained the ground it had just lost and cut the Gomel-Minsk rail line. In turn, Western Front struck to the east of the city and slipped mobile formations around the exposed eastern flank of the German infantry.



In turn, 40 Army was hastily redeployed and almost surrounded the weak German garrison at Chernigov.


(Soviet cavalry on the Dneipr west of Chernigov)

Taking a major risk, the inexperienced 6 Tank Army tried to outflank the entire German position in the eastern Ukraine. By 25 August, their advanced guard was only 30 miles from Kiev.


[1]


[1] Seems the easiest way to show the overall situation in the Ukraine. The Germans pulled back a bit at Kharkov but have a strong defense – I didn't really attack this turn as I wanted to let my mobile units rest. On the northern flank I pulled Bryansk and Voronezh Fronts to the west leaving Central Front as a defensive shield. South of Stalino the Romanians have pulled back,

6TA is a gamble as it is exposed but if the Germans move their armour from the eastern Ukraine to deal with it then I can attack with ease both towards Poltava and at Sumy. In effect they are cheese bait, if eaten I hope the trade-off is significant gains in the eastern Ukraine. I still think the most important thing at this stage is that I am over the Dneipr by the end of winter 43/44. The closer I start to it, the better.

Well played, slogging forward one hex at a time. Would be a nice bonus if you could hold on to that little pocket east of Gomel. I'm somewhat surprised that your opponent is holding onto that gigantic balcony in the Ukraine while allowing you a free run at the Dnepr up north.

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Well played, slogging forward one hex at a time. Would be a nice bonus if you could hold on to that little pocket east of Gomel. I'm somewhat surprised that your opponent is holding onto that gigantic balcony in the Ukraine while allowing you a free run at the Dnepr up north.

he has me blocked on the Poltava/west of Pskov but he can't cope as easily with the attacks by NW Front (basically along the north bank of the Dvina). Think its the core problem for a German player at this stage - you can't be defensively strong everywhere and still keep your Pzrs as a mobile force?

I think at this stage the Red Army is well suited to this approach of just grinding out a hex a turn. Its almost unstoppable, even with reserve reactions when you have 6-8 Gds Rifle corps backed by 6+ artillery/rocket divisions. I'm at the stage where anything under 100cv defensively is beatable (ok it takes me 2 armies to do this but I'm in no hurry [;)]). As his infantry shed morale, strong points are simply either bypassed or squashed.

Since once lost its near impossible to regain a hex, then every now and then the Germans have to pull back. The wider situation along the Dvina/Dauga is now rather tense - come winter that barrier falls away and he is running out of space just to trade off.

In the Ukraine, the Chernigov-Gomel situation is going to become very complex and very costly. But at this stage, I regard the army as expendable, its all about reaching the Dneipr - I can recover my losses up the point the river freezes in December.

But at this stage, I regard the army as expendable

Very chillingly Stalinesque! [X(] But I understand your point. Good luck as you churn forward.

ORIGINAL: jwolf

But at this stage, I regard the army as expendable

Very chillingly Stalinesque! [X(] But I understand your point. Good luck as you churn forward.

must admit this game does tend to make you think that way, very goal orientated and so on ...

Turn 115; 26 August – 1 September 1943

The end of August and early September saw the two provincial cities of Gomel and Chernigov dominate the plans of both sides. Essentially a strategic backwater as the massive Pripyet marshes to the west created a formidable barrier to military operations for both sides. For a brief moment this sector appeared to be critical.

While Stavka had fully expected a German response, the scale of their redeployment exceeded both the most optimistic hopes and worst fears of Soviet planners.



The Soviet forces around Chernigov and south of the Desna had been splintered into three pockets. The bulk of 40 Army was cut off to the west of Chernigov, 6 Tank Army was isolated to the east and 28 Army had been surrounded. In addition, German motorised troops had struck north creating chaos with the Soviet command structure and airbases.

Initially it appeared as if the Germans had over-reached themselves. 4 Tank Army managed to restore communications with 28 Army and 2 Tank Army followed up and routed the 27 Panzer Division. Despite this 6 Tank Army remained trapped.



From the east, 28, 34 and 46 Armies managed a series of attacks and threatened the rear of the German armour on the Desna. Around Gomel, Volkhov and Western Fronts managed to restore the Soviet front line and encircle several German divisions. Finally 40 Army managed to capture Chernigov and pull back the units to the west of the city.




(Soviet troops fighting near Chernigov)

At the same time, Kalinin Front liberated Vitebsk and continued to make steady progress through the German defensive belts between the Dnepr and the Dvina.



However, despite the threat to 3 armies, the Soviet lunge at Chernigov paid off on other sectors. The Germans pulled back in the north abandoning eastern and northern Estonia.




(Soviet infantry pushing into eastern Estonia)

In the south, Soviet troops entered the industrial cities of the Dombas as the Germans fell back.



As a result North-Caucasus Front hastily redeployed from Kharkov to provide additional support to Voronezh Front attacking between Konotop and Romny.



Losses matched the extent of the fighting. The Germans lost 39,000 men (17,000 kia), 105 tanks and 100 planes for Soviet losses of 47,000 men (25,000 kia), 600 tanks and 300 planes (many destroyed when their airbases were over-run).

Turn 116: 2 – 8 September 1943

The Germans carried on their massive counter-attack at Gomel-Chernigov. This time more of 40 Army was cut off and 28 Army was again isolated. 6 Tank Army was destroyed.


[1]

Two major relief operations were launched. Voronezh and Western Front tried to carve a way through the German defences north of Chernigov. Despite inflicting heavy losses, they were unable to break through to the trapped units. The critical battle was the failure of 2 Tank Army to dislodge 39 Panzer Corps just north of Chernigov.

To the east, the Combined Arms Armies of Voronezh and Bryansk Fronts tried to reach 28 Army. Again, the Germans took substantial losses but were able to bring the Soviet offensive to a halt short of its targets.

Stavka then ordered North-Caucasus Front into action between the Pselm and Sula rivers. This was an attempt to take advantage of the commitment of the German reserves to Chernigov and to try and disrupt any attempt by the Germans to make a stand east of the Dneipr.



Despite this, the battles between Orsha and the Dvina were of more importance in the longer term.

The Soviet spearhead west of Orsha just managed to fend off a massive German attack. Critically the German counter-stroke was undermined by a lack of available Panzer formations and poor communications between the different attacking formations.




(SU-85 taking up a defensive position west of Orsha)

In turn, Kalinin Front stormed Orsha, undermining the German defences on the upper Dneipr, even if the Front suffered a rare defeat when it tried to outflank the German lines to the north.




(Soviet infantry fighting in Orsha)

Overall the summer battles had shifted the advantage to the Soviets. Formations that had started the summer fighting near the Don or the Oka were now approaching the Dneipr and the Berezina. In the north, the German front line was no longer anchored on Novgorod but stretched along the Dvina/Dauga. However, as at Chernigov, it was clear the Wehrmacht was not beaten and that over-confident Soviet offensives ran the risk of a major defeat.



The substantial geographical gains had been bought at a high price. The Red Army had seen almost 500,000 men killed and a further 300,000 permanently injured (Axis losses were 220,000 and 200,000 respectively). The Soviet armoured formations had take brutal losses of nearly 6,500 tanks and self-propelled guns. For this, the Germans had lost close to 1,000.



In terms of overall numbers, despite the heavy losses the Axis armies (apart from the loss of thei Italian contingent) were as strong as at the end of the winter battles. The only difference was that the Germans were now more reliant on their allies and the Finns were effectively isolated from the main battlefields.



Soviet industry continued to support the growing Red Army, assisted by the welcome increase in the number of lend-lease trucks (for comparison I had just under 92,000 in the pool at the end of March).



Also both on ground and in the air, the Soviet forces continued to modernise.



The main problem with the available tanks was that the T34/76 was now badly outclassed. The new Su-85 and the few KV-85s were an attempt to give the tank and mechanised formations more firepower to cope with the heavier German tanks.


[2]

[1] With hindsight, last turn I think I should have just concentrated on protecting 28 Army (I had enough units to do this) but the temptation to try and rescue the other cut off units was too much. On the other hand, the Germans have paid a high price for this victory and while I have lost some good units, I can mostly replace them fairly quickly.

[2] I'm running out of recon planes, hence the usage of R-5 and R-10s. One grumble is with the modelling of the Yak-9T. It was designed as a more agile tank destroyer than the Il-2 but you can't use it in that role, as a conventional FB its actually slower and less mobile than most of the other modern fighters, especially the rather good La-5F.

Ouch. I'm assuming the trapped units were quickly destroyed -- how much exactly did you lose?

I can see your point that the heavy German commitment near Chernigov allowed you some freedom of operation elsewhere. It was still expensive.

Great AAR as always.

Wow that's a HUGE German Army 4.6 million late 42, most I ever had was 3.9.

Looking back over numbers he had 4.1 million in spring of 41 that's HUGE also massive.

I have to look things over, but that seem amazing huge. He should have been hitting you harder as he could easly have traded blow for blow until he got down around 3.8 million over 42/43 winter.
That would have really delayed things for you even with the 2 to 1 ratio.

Losses and a few other things have been tweaked so that's not possible now, but I have to look at his style of combat, because that's a real savings.

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Ouch. I'm assuming the trapped units were quickly destroyed -- how much exactly did you lose?

I can see your point that the heavy German commitment near Chernigov allowed you some freedom of operation elsewhere. It was still expensive.

well that turn he destroyed a complete tank army, so I'd say that would be about 35,000 killed or captured (plus all the tanks), next turn he'll get 4 rifle corps, 2 more tank corps, a cavalry corps and a couple of rifle divisions (plus all the SUs).

So I've paid a high price for pushing it too far. But he now has a real problem, he's in the middle of the eastern Ukraine with no pre-built fort lines. He could engage in a mobile running battle (where he'd win 80% of the engagements but burn out his Pzrs) or carry on back to the Dneipr.

If he does that then I reckon I have to December to recover and train up my losses. I doubt I can cross the river before then, so may as well build up and let my supply lines repair themselves.

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Ouch. I'm assuming the trapped units were quickly destroyed -- how much exactly did you lose?

I can see your point that the heavy German commitment near Chernigov allowed you some freedom of operation elsewhere. It was still expensive.

well that turn he destroyed a complete tank army, so I'd say that would be about 35,000 killed or captured (plus all the tanks), next turn he'll get 4 rifle corps, 2 more tank corps, a cavalry corps and a couple of rifle divisions (plus all the SUs).

So I've paid a high price for pushing it too far. But he now has a real problem, he's in the middle of the eastern Ukraine with no pre-built fort lines. He could engage in a mobile running battle (where he'd win 80% of the engagements but burn out his Pzrs) or carry on back to the Dneipr.

If he does that then I reckon I have to December to recover and train up my losses. I doubt I can cross the river before then, so may as well build up and let my supply lines repair themselves.

Not sure what he has done but his army is very strong and to your credit your still driving him west.

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Great AAR as always.

Wow that's a HUGE German Army most I ever had was 3.9.

Looking back over numbers he had 4.1 million in spring of 41 that's HUGE also massive.

I have to look things over, but that seem amazing huge.

Losses and a few other things have been tweaked so that's not possible now, but I have to look at his style of combat, because that's a real savings.

I think vigabrand has basically traded off terrain for losses - early Summer every time I started to push into a defensive line and start an attritional battle he pulled back.

On the other hand - the Finns are out of the game as are around 12 German infantry divisions (his units on the Neva).

Its his chosen strategy but I have my doubts. My feeling is that my Gds Rifle Corps are never going to be as weak as they were in early summer 1943 (we are just into November and they are now easily at 22 cv ... some more). And he has the various hardwired NM hits (which I am really going off as a game mechanic), so he may have saved a lot of manpower and notionally strong units only for them to weaken both absolutely and relatively.

I think I could still be fighting around Novgorod-Velikie Luki and Bryansk-Donets but he would have suffered far more losses.

My interpretation of the big picture is that the Dvina/Dauga can't hold over the winter 43/44 and that puts me on the German border in summer 1944. In the south, the Dneipr can't hold and that puts Romania at risk etc ... as well as opening up the southern route into Germany. Somewhere he needs to fight hex by hex but at worst odds than were available.

On the other hand, he's saved so much that any progress once the front shortens is going to be exceptionally slow, so it may pay off as a means to delay the Soviet advance once we are into Germany.

ORIGINAL: Pelton

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Ouch. I'm assuming the trapped units were quickly destroyed -- how much exactly did you lose?

I can see your point that the heavy German commitment near Chernigov allowed you some freedom of operation elsewhere. It was still expensive.

well that turn he destroyed a complete tank army, so I'd say that would be about 35,000 killed or captured (plus all the tanks), next turn he'll get 4 rifle corps, 2 more tank corps, a cavalry corps and a couple of rifle divisions (plus all the SUs).

So I've paid a high price for pushing it too far. But he now has a real problem, he's in the middle of the eastern Ukraine with no pre-built fort lines. He could engage in a mobile running battle (where he'd win 80% of the engagements but burn out his Pzrs) or carry on back to the Dneipr.

If he does that then I reckon I have to December to recover and train up my losses. I doubt I can cross the river before then, so may as well build up and let my supply lines repair themselves.

Not sure what he has done but his army is very strong and to your credit your still driving him west.

what he seems to have no answer to is I have 3 fronts that are formed around Gds Rifle Corps and masses of on/off map artillery. He can usually block one of them by concentrating and moving in his reserves but he can't stop all three.

Kalinin Front is basically 3 armies of 4 * Gds Rifle, 1 army of 4 * tank/mech corps and 1 army of 8*on-map artillery (and there is an airborne corps of 4 more artillery divisions working with it).

What that means is each turn I can set up a couple of attacks that are likely to come out around 3-1 if there is no reserve reaction .. and have a reasonable chance to win if the reserve reaction is a single Pzr division. The artillery is stripping out 10-20% of his defensive cv before the fighting as it wrecks his fortifications.

I was never convinced by Chaos45's claims that cavalry corps were the thing to build - I think they are incredibly useful but by 1943 are a dead end. The real striking power of the Red Army is in the Gds Rifle Corps and you just need to build enough, early as you can, to generate the wins to gain Gds status. Oh and build artillery, you can never have too much artillery.

Its his chosen strategy but I have my doubts.
My feeling is that my Gds Rifle Corps are never going to be as weak as they were in early
summer 1943 (we are just into November and they are now easily at 22 cv ... some more).
And he has the various hardwired NM hits (which I am really going off as a game mechanic),
so he may have saved a lot of manpower and notionally strong units only for them to weaken
both absolutely and relatively.

This is what I was getting at NM hits.

As Germany its important to keep attacking as long as possible,
then hold the lines as long as possible. He could have inflicted allot more loses on you while his lines were solid still buying more time.

He did a great job during blizzard also conserving his tanks and keeping his loses to a mini,
but I think he should have done better trading loses for time.

Its uber important to keep Russia as far from Berlin as possible.

I don't like his over all defensive strategy. Allot of German players that are amazing attacking 41-42,
some of the greats are horrible past 42 and I mean bad as can be seen in a few AAR's

Its important to use reserve mode and have defense in depth. Having one big blob of panzers is not going to cut it as your proving.
Its more important to spread them all along the front so they can quickly react to any break through.
Infantry in front, panzers or high morale infantry in 2nd line and then FZ's OKA north.

You simply can not let units get pocketed in 43 as things can quickly snowball out of control.

At some point sht will fall apart, but hopefully its east of Poland then you can trade some space for time until front shortens and then you can fight it out the rest of the way.

You still have a long ways to go and January 45 your trucks will very quickly dry up.

He still got a chance at a draw if he can hold things together over the winter.

Loki---Guards rifle corps are needed but you get them automatically anyway.

Its why I concentrate AP on cav corps early then tank corps as they become available.

Once they patch will see if my army building tactic worked or not. As me and Pelton haven't played a turn in a month or two now. The issue with lots of infantry is the Germans can just run from you. They cant do that against massed Cav Corps--plus that's an extra 20-30 mobile corps to help exploit breakthroughs or assist in guard armored breakthrough flanks.

As you can see up to our last turns I was using the Cav units to move up and hit his lines every time he fell back this keeps pressure on the German OOB...not to mention makes it harder for a line to get firm again as units entrench slower next to enemy units and all that. Plus trucks....ya trucks....cav corps take very few trucks for the amount of added mobility and until 1944 a Cav corps was about as strong as a tank corps...now with the morale change they might not be...but that wasn't the case when our game started.

Still think those cav corps are going to be useful up until Germany basically when the front condenses massively and even then massed cav should allow the infantry to hit then the cav pull forward and hit due more MP.

Maybe my strategy is wrong only time will tell--not doubting or slighting Guard rifle corps---but 2 guards div+ 1 rifle bde makes those and well u have tons of them sitting around. In fact im to the point of not using BDEs to make corps as I don't need/want tons more infantry to feed. Eventually just like M60 game ill be disbanding corps/armies.

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Its his chosen strategy but I have my doubts.
My feeling is that my Gds Rifle Corps are never going to be as weak as they were in early
summer 1943 (we are just into November and they are now easily at 22 cv ... some more).
And he has the various hardwired NM hits (which I am really going off as a game mechanic),
so he may have saved a lot of manpower and notionally strong units only for them to weaken
both absolutely and relatively.

This is what I was getting at NM hits.

As Germany its important to keep attacking as long as possible,
then hold the lines as long as possible. He could have inflicted allot more loses on you while his lines were solid still buying more time.

He did a great job during blizzard also conserving his tanks and keeping his loses to a mini,
but I think he should have done better trading loses for time.

Its uber important to keep Russia as far from Berlin as possible.

I don't like his over all defensive strategy. Allot of German players that are amazing attacking 41-42,
some of the greats are horrible past 42 and I mean bad as can be seen in a few AAR's

Its important to use reserve mode and have defense in depth. Having one big blob of panzers is not going to cut it as your proving.
Its more important to spread them all along the front so they can quickly react to any break through.
Infantry in front, panzers or high morale infantry in 2nd line and then FZ's OKA north.

You simply can not let units get pocketed in 43 as things can quickly snowball out of control.

At some point sht will fall apart, but hopefully its east of Poland then you can trade some space for time until front shortens and then you can fight it out the rest of the way.

You still have a long ways to go and January 45 your trucks will very quickly dry up.

He still got a chance at a draw if he can hold things together over the winter.

He's not lost anything, the two times I have really encircled a block of divisions he has reacted by pulling 75% of his Pzrs into a block and counter-attacking (here and earlier at Voroshilovgrad). Guess that has the advantage that he doesn't have manpower and equipment flowing into what Stef78 called 'zombies' in his AAR with Oshawatt.

My truck pools are at 95%, as the front shortens a lot my second rate rifle divisions will find themselves on 50% TOE and guarding Moscow. If need be I'll disband but my preference is to keep them around as a shell formation in order to maxmise the % of Gds in my main combat formations.

I think a draw is quite feasible at the moment, the next phase will be important. If he manages a fighting retreat in western Bielorussia and Lithuania/Latvia he'll secure the northern way into Germany. If he pulls back under pressure then I think I can push on to the Vistula in mid-44.

The south is more interesting in a way. Although its a longer way for me to Lvov etc, that is always an easier way into Germany proper due to the river network.

I think vigabrand mistimed his retreat to the Dneipr. If he'd held me for 3-4 more turns then my supply lines would be weak even when the river freezes. As it is, by December I reckon my railheads will reach the east bank every except in the far south.

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Loki---Guards rifle corps are needed but you get them automatically anyway.

Its why I concentrate AP on cav corps early then tank corps as they become available.

Once they patch will see if my army building tactic worked or not. As me and Pelton haven't played a turn in a month or two now. The issue with lots of infantry is the Germans can just run from you. They cant do that against massed Cav Corps--plus that's an extra 20-30 mobile corps to help exploit breakthroughs or assist in guard armored breakthrough flanks.

As you can see up to our last turns I was using the Cav units to move up and hit his lines every time he fell back this keeps pressure on the German OOB...not to mention makes it harder for a line to get firm again as units entrench slower next to enemy units and all that. Plus trucks....ya trucks....cav corps take very few trucks for the amount of added mobility and until 1944 a Cav corps was about as strong as a tank corps...now with the morale change they might not be...but that wasn't the case when our game started.

Still think those cav corps are going to be useful up until Germany basically when the front condenses massively and even then massed cav should allow the infantry to hit then the cav pull forward and hit due more MP.

Maybe my strategy is wrong only time will tell--not doubting or slighting Guard rifle corps---but 2 guards div+ 1 rifle bde makes those and well u have tons of them sitting around. In fact im to the point of not using BDEs to make corps as I don't need/want tons more infantry to feed. Eventually just like M60 game ill be disbanding corps/armies.

Unlike you I don't think that strategies are right or wrong, I think there a number of ways to solve the issue of first how to survive 1942 and then attack in 1943/4.

But you don't get the sort of OOB I have in some fronts

automatically anyway

, you get it by spending a lot of admin pts re-organising. I could say the same about your cavalry corps, simply spend 46 Admin Pts and you have a new cavalry corps filled with support units. ... automatically as you say [;)]

In terms of hitting power, by mid/late 43 nothing matches a stack of well led Gds Rifle Corps + on-map artillery. You have no problems with level 3 forts (which wreck the impact of mobile units ... incl cavalry once they are treated that way), and if your opponent pulls back well you get to advance for free. You need mobile units to shake things up and for exploitation