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RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:05 pm
by GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: ADB123
Think there's something wrong in the system
It's the result of a design over-reaction to a perceived problem with CAP in the original WitP - CAP didn't "leak enough" to satisfy the folks who redesigned WitP into AE, so they overcompensated and now CAP leaks to the point of being a joke.
And don't listen to all of the apologists who make up imaginary scenarios to "explain away" the current really, REALLY bad design of CAP in AE.
But we, the paying customers, are stuck with it, so you, Radar and the rest of us have to live with it, no matter how bad it is.
Sounds quite right....however the strange fact is that it seems to me that "sometimes" even the big raid gets butchered (see my previous disaster at Tokyo where i lost 460 planes!!!) but most of the times, when the raid goes in "coordinated" the CAP really seems to do a bad job...
Whenever the raid gets uncoordinated CAP does wonders....when it gets coordinated escort does wonders... there must be a good point in the middle of these two extremes imho...
If this is true...and it's WAD...i think Rader has no chance of having a a/c production at all by 1945... and i, on the opposite, have no chance of land anywhere in Japan...imagine what another coordinated japanese raid could do to my ships if i get close to the coast of japan....
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:57 pm
by JohnDillworth
If this is true...and it's WAD...i think Rader has no chance of having a a/c production at all by 1945... and i, on the opposite, have no chance of land anywhere in Japan...imagine what another coordinated japanese raid could do to my ships if i get close to the coast of japan....
Oh, I don't know about that. If you continue to destroy his fighter production he will only have AA guns to guard his troops. They help, but can you imagine what will happen to his troop concentrations if you put 300-500 unopposed 4EB's over them turn after turn? It would only make sense to then disperse his troops and respond after you have landed. Fact of the matter is this game is over unless you want to invaded for fun (and that's[:)] why you must invade). If this goes on until September 45 you will have thousands of B-17's and A-20's, on top of the thousand + B-29's that will have come and gone. Right now I ca't see you landing in the north unless your 4EB's reduce the concentrations. Very worst case you wait until August 45 and then you have a thing or 2 to soften up the invasion beaches. That, after all, was a serious consideration for the invasion of Honshu
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:17 pm
by Cribtop
GJ, I think the CAP deal can be explained by the linear nature plus buckets o'dice rolls nature of G. Grigsby. I often refer to this game as an "S" on the Myers-Briggs S/N continuum, this is what I mean. The designers attempt to allow more leaks (I'll pointedly avoid the wisdom of that decision as I wasn't around for the argument and don't know the merits other than vague references to fixing "Uber-CAP"). Fine as it goes, but the linear nature of the game means wacky results when combats involve numbers never envisioned. Thus, imagine the code says "after X minutes of A2A combat, begin rolling for the rest of the raid to leak." No idea if this is how it works but seems plausible. OK, so what if after X minutes there are still 400 bombers in the raid because it started with a zillion? The few times it doesn't work this way could be the bucket o' dice effect with a raid that just misses the leak roll over and over.
PS - if you knock out his fighter production, you can knock out bomber production next, focusing on torpedo planes and good kami models of all types. Then, voila, Seattle Girl Scout troop #275 could board ship unprepped and take Tokyo after you have air supremacy for a few months. Hell, even launch a dummy invasion to draw out any reserve planes he has hoarded up and then hit him with the real thing a week later.
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:59 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
If this is true...and it's WAD...i think Rader has no chance of having a a/c production at all by 1945... and i, on the opposite, have no chance of land anywhere in Japan...imagine what another coordinated japanese raid could do to my ships if i get close to the coast of japan....
Oh, I don't know about that. If you continue to destroy his fighter production he will only have AA guns to guard his troops. They help, but can you imagine what will happen to his troop concentrations if you put 300-500 unopposed 4EB's over them turn after turn? It would only make sense to then disperse his troops and respond after you have landed. Fact of the matter is this game is over unless you want to invaded for fun (and that's[:)] why you must invade). If this goes on until September 45 you will have thousands of B-17's and A-20's, on top of the thousand + B-29's that will have come and gone. Right now I ca't see you landing in the north unless your 4EB's reduce the concentrations. Very worst case you wait until August 45 and then you have a thing or 2 to soften up the invasion beaches. That, after all, was a serious consideration for the invasion of Honshu
And, cutting off the sea lanes to the DEI and SE Asia.
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:58 pm
by GreyJoy
I won't wait that long guys. One more year of strat bombing and sea-routes guarding??? Com'on...we'll all die for boredom!!...and, as i said before, this is, above all, a game which is meant for fun for both players (and readers
).
Rader's navy is still intact and his assets are still very capable. I don't want him to see his assets rotting in a port for th next 20 months...
I have a navy that can compete with his now. I say it's time to use it. It's time to land and create the best battle of AE History!...the whole combined fleet against the whole RN+US Navy. My air force against his own. My soldiers facing his own soldiers fighting for the homeland....that would be magnificent!!!
The air battles are becoming an issue...both our CAPs are harmless against big strikes...it's a problem....but untill remains a balanced problem (so affecting the both of us) i can live with it.
However i think the Devs should take a look at those saves....Rader sent to Michealm the latest save containing the last air battle...we both think there's something "borked" in the code about this kind of battles....
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:03 pm
by dennishe
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
It's time to land and create the best battle of AE History!...the whole combined fleet against the whole RN+US Navy. My air force against his own. My soldiers facing his own soldiers fighting for the homeland....that would be magnificent!!!
Awesome! I for sure will be following this battle from the start
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:20 pm
by Cribtop
If I was the RL FDR, I'd be horrified at the risk and casualties of your Hairy Downfall proposal.
As a reader, I'm thrilled to watch it just for the cool factor. Note that your strat bombing can still serve a useful purpose for the invasion - namely destroying the hordes of planes that he could use over the invasion beaches and the factories that build them.
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:41 pm
by JohnDillworth
I have a navy that can compete with his now. I say it's time to use it. It's time to land and create the best battle of AE History!...the whole combined fleet against the whole RN+US Navy.
Go South young man
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:44 pm
by Crackaces
ORIGINAL: Cribtop
If I was the RL FDR, I'd be horrified at the risk and casualties of your Hairy Downfall proposal.
As a reader, I'm thrilled to watch it just for the cool factor. Note that your strat bombing can still serve a useful purpose for the invasion - namely destroying the hordes of planes that he could use over the invasion beaches and the factories that build them.
This is the Roosevelt strokes out in early '44 scenario.. The election theme is "Quit pussy footing around and level Japan !!!.." .[:D]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:54 pm
by GreyJoy
Ok guys, for the next turn i set up a double trap-feint...let's see how it works out...
...i've been deliberately leaving my crippled CVEs at Uruppu along with a huge % of our surface fleet.
At the same time i've moved several xAPs and LSIs to Bihoro (more than 400 ships if you consider the 10 BBs and several DDs placed there).
Rader's recon has constantly spotted them, both at Bihoro and Uruppu...
...i haven't bombed Ominato since 10 days....and Ominato is the only 9 lvl Af in northern Honshu...
So here's the plan...
I've ordered the biggest part of my fleet to move at max speed north...far away from Ominato...more than 15 hexes....
At the same time i left big and juicy baits at Bihoro (xAPs and xAKs, along with several other transports in port guarded by 247 flak guns).
I'm pretty confident Rader will attack me with another massive raid...So i've moved 750 fighters to Bihoro, leaving only 290 at uruppu to cover the crippled CVEs (just in case he tries a port attack)
At the same time i have a BC TF at Hakkodate, guarded by more 700 fighters....
The BC Reknown, along with 3 CAs and 10 DD/DMS will try to bomb Ominato, challenging the 200 cm guns there and the mines left by Rader...as soon as the sun comes up 650 bombers will took off from Hakkodate and will bomb Ominato...If the God of war is mercyfull we could damage some planes (i'm pretty sure he will have planes there tomorrow...) at night and destroy the rest of them both using our CAP and with our bombers.
Our major ships should be safe far away from the battlefield, while i've concentrated my best a/c to guard the baits.... all the altitudes are covered....hopefully, without any CVE or CV in sight his bombers on naval attack won't be so perfectly concentrated as last time and will divert following different objectives (the best would be Hakkodate and Bihoro)...
If everything goes well i could catch the whole japanese bombing army in one single turn....
What do we risk?...some good ships...obviously...but nothing too critical...
Gods be good![&o]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:30 am
by Cribtop
ORIGINAL: Crackaces
ORIGINAL: Cribtop
If I was the RL FDR, I'd be horrified at the risk and casualties of your Hairy Downfall proposal.
As a reader, I'm thrilled to watch it just for the cool factor. Note that your strat bombing can still serve a useful purpose for the invasion - namely destroying the hordes of planes that he could use over the invasion beaches and the factories that build them.
This is the Roosevelt strokes out in early '44 scenario.. The election theme is "Quit pussy footing around and level Japan !!!.." .[:D]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:18 am
by jmalter
hi GJ,
's good to see that you're continuing the 4E strat campaign, despite 'orrid losses to the CVE fleets.
so i'll assume that bulk resupply to Hokkaido was successful, and new resupply is en route.
don't play to the gallery (all of us commenters) for the next offensive, just to make good AAR reports. i prefer you build up overwhelming forces for the Ominato invasion - you're gonna need them.
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:24 am
by GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: jmalter
hi GJ,
's good to see that you're continuing the 4E strat campaign, despite 'orrid losses to the CVE fleets.
so i'll assume that bulk resupply to Hokkaido was successful, and new resupply is en route.
don't play to the gallery (all of us commenters) for the next offensive, just to make good AAR reports. i prefer you build up overwhelming forces for the Ominato invasion - you're gonna need them.
Yes, the supply is flowing very good in Hokkaido. By now i have 3,3 millions supplies in Hokkaido and 1,5millions in the Kuriles...with more 800,000 coming along the way....
I play for the gallery, for my self and for Rader, but that doesn't mean i won't looking for a winning campaign. Simply i'll accept losses that FDR woulnd't accept in a RL environement...but i think that's pretty much what every AE player does[:)]
Now i'm looking forward for the next turn...if Rader plays as i think it's gonna be a damned bloody turn
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:40 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The BC Reknown, along with 3 CAs and 10 DD/DMS will try to bomb Ominato, challenging the 200 cm guns there and the mines left by Rader...as soon as the sun comes up 650 bombers will took off from Hakkodate and will bomb Ominato...
not sure it would be a good idea to challenge 200cm guns! [X(][X(][;)]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:53 am
by JohnDillworth
not sure it would be a good idea to challenge 200cm guns!
BTW, I was always unclear about this: Is it possible, by another means besides taking the port, to destroy CD guns? Seem no matter what I do they keep firing until the port is taken
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:02 pm
by Dan Nichols
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The BC Reknown, along with 3 CAs and 10 DD/DMS will try to bomb Ominato, challenging the 200 cm guns there and the mines left by Rader...as soon as the sun comes up 650 bombers will took off from Hakkodate and will bomb Ominato...
not sure it would be a good idea to challenge 200cm guns! [X(][X(][;)]
The Rate of Fire is probably low for those 200cm guns. [:D]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:25 pm
by GreyJoy
I know it's not a good idea...i ordered my BC and CAs to bombard only with the biggest calibers (30miles distant). Those 200 cm guns have a range of 35miles...so i risk to be badly damaged...i know...and there are mines too.... but i cannot let Ominato stand unchallenged...I have a port with a repair yard 1 hex away (Hakkodate) and i hope to get my damaged ships back still afloat....
And even if i manage to get only a couple of shots on the runaway...full of thousands of bombers....well, it would have been worth the risk!
I cannot night bomb cause it's a night with 0% moon....[:(]...
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:45 pm
by ny59giants
I had a large Japanese SC TF four hexes away from Soerbaja and set react to 3 hexes. It reacted to the PT boats two hexes away and then again into Soerbaja to go after a few transports. Only my BB and CAs survived and they were out of the war for months. [:(]
Beware of those large static CD guns. [:-]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:57 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I know it's not a good idea...i ordered my BC and CAs to bombard only with the biggest calibers (30miles distant). Those 200 cm guns have a range of 35miles...so i risk to be badly damaged...i know...and there are mines too.... but i cannot let Ominato stand unchallenged...I have a port with a repair yard 1 hex away (Hakkodate) and i hope to get my damaged ships back still afloat....
And even if i manage to get only a couple of shots on the runaway...full of thousands of bombers....well, it would have been worth the risk!
I cannot night bomb cause it's a night with 0% moon....[:(]...
Dude! 200cm guns (200cm = 2 meters!) shoot tiny battleships for ammunition so they have a range of a lot more than 35 miles! [:D]
RE: Blood in the skies
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:19 pm
by kfsgo
ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
not sure it would be a good idea to challenge 200cm guns!
BTW, I was always unclear about this: Is it possible, by another means besides taking the port, to destroy CD guns? Seem no matter what I do they keep firing until the port is taken
Destroy, reliably? I don't think so, really - absent weeks and weeks of bombing they'll tend to fix disablements reasonably quickly. If you disrupt the containing LCUs (through port or, depending on what type of LCU container they're in, airfield attacks) enough they
can be neutralised more or less effectively, but you have to keep up the effort - it's no good bombing a port for a week and then landing a week later hoping everything's still a wreck, because the LCUs will have recovered from the disruption by then. And, obviously, there's no direct indicator of disruption per se, so you're stuck hoping it's enough. Which...makes sense, I guess, however frustrating.