Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

Now this is my entire front dispositions and reserve status. I'm not sure what defense to employ but I'm afraid of using Rgt. up front because of ZOC. I'm not sure what you mean Flaviusx when you talk about this, but I fear encirclement of those. Maybe you can explain or draw a map. I'm all for understanding better defenses to become a better Axis player. I don't know if Red will like me getting this kind of help though.

The TOE and replacement bugs did a lot of harm to Carnage.... but also did the fact that most of the Infantry was out in the open rather than taking cover from winter rigours on towns and cities. Too many unoccupied black dots on Axis rear.

In any case I see the game far from lost for you, Carnage. Just let that 1942 Soviet army get a bit overextended and you'll get your revenge.

Have you thought about disbanding the fortified zones to get the manpower into the infantry divisions?

Others have already mentioned that you will likely have to reduce TO&E on some units in order to push manpower into divisions for striking power as well.

I think things may be better than you think. You will be getting a steady stream of infantry divisions and you have a lot of mud headed your way which will slow him down and allow you to refit.

There are some games where the Axis player is really in trouble

This is not one of them

If your Panzer Corps have refitted over winter, then you will roll him back (it will be hard though)

Yooohooooo... anyone at home... Carnage? This game is over? [:)]

Ahhhhh, why TD I didn't know you cared [:D] 

This game is on the back burner sort of speak.  I've actually got a turn or two in that I didn't post screens for because of mud and nothing really happening yet.

In addition I got a new job that pays more than twice as much as what I was making but I work 12-14 hours days for 5 days straight.  In addition I'm using my in-laws computer until next week so its a real hassle to get a turn in.  Red has been very gracious in understanding my predicament right now.  Hopefully once I get my computer and get used to working so much, maybe I'll be able to get a turn in every other day.  I do miss my WitE time but real life must take priority [:(].

Congrats on the new job Carnage. 

Carnage, I am interested in all the AARs [:)] And these last days people were arguing about the catastrophic blizzard (which indeed it is, er, as it should be?). Then I saw your sentence, saying that you were happy with the numbers (losses, etc.) after the blizzard.

looks like they can play this out for the next 8 months as stalemate-

ORIGINAL: raizer

this is a good aar because red is kind of half stepping his way thru the scenario, just kinda moving stuff around, la di da,  and carnage is chomping at the bit, going full out,  pulling out all the stops. Carnage is doing great and has gotten far and I dont mean to poke fun at red.  By looking at his aars one can tell that red knows what he could be doing as a defender and he is getting good advice but he is refusing to take it.   We will all find out if a half as#%ed russian defense is still enough to lay waste to the axis in 42 lol, against someone using all the tricks and is a capable player.  I wonder if red is just trying to prove a point .

ORIGINAL: RCH

There is a possibility that you have a stranger in your house. this may explain your post concerning......

"Here is where the trouble is starting for Operation Zeus. Door Able has moved, which is good, less fortification to deal with but its been reinforced which isn't good. On the plus side he doesn't have any secondary line in front of it....yet.

Another thing that has me puzzled is his line moved back and he gave me mostly 40 miles in most areas. Thats 2 weeks of ground I think.


Maybe not , but you should keep this in mind. Maybe some deception on your part with future posts????

FYI, I never once looked at this AAR and I am reading for the first time today. Excellent AAR, by the way!

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Yes, I'm amused at this belated attack of common sense in terms of defensive doctrine. So much for the morality and ethics of gaming.

I employed foolish tactics in Phase 1 and more sensible tactics in Phase 2, with increasing sophistication going into the winter offensive. That was intended to reflect the historical learning curve that the Soviets went through, as stated in my own AAR.

"Sheesh", as you would say

ORIGINAL: Josh

"...Not to bitch and moan but I think this will be one of my last Axis pbem games until some sort of better balance comes about for the Axis first winter. I'm not asking for supermen to spring out of the ground but I'm asking for infantry across the board that are not Romanian quality after a hard winters fight. There is no way I can make a historical counter attack after playing a historical type defense against Red's somewhat historical offensive... boo hoo for me...[:D][:'(] ..."

Well I agree, your units look pretty wasted, not much fun having div. around with 3-4-5 CV. Maybe things will change with the next couple of patches?
It could also be that Red is an extraordinairy good player, after all he's been playing wargames for the last fourty years or so. I thought he'd lost the game a few pages back, and look at the situation now.

Thanks Josh, but I'm not a particularly expert player even though I have been playing a long time and this was my first (and only) PBEM as the Soviets in ANY game. However, I do think that I know enough to be able to recognize when a WW2 war game isn't truly reflective of the general flow of history. Also, I'm not dumb enough to think that the game should actually be entirely 'historical' - though some have quoted me in that fashion.

As I posted in my AAR, I did set out from the start to play in a style that I thought reflected Soviet initial incompetence and to then gradually improve my tactics over time. However, there were MANY things I could have done better, even within those constraints.

The goal of this test (see my AAR) was to establish what would happen if the Axis pushed the Soviets to the gates of Moscow and inflicted huge losses in the process. I wanted to see whether the Soviets would be able to bounce back with a winter offensive along quasi-historical lines.

The end result appears to be that the Axis army is badly battered, although I can't say whether it is more badly battered than it should be, but it certainly feels that way from my side. My conclusions from this campaign are:

1. The Axis player probably would have reached the historical December '41 line if he had not diverted troops into the Crimea (a nice move that took me by surprise) and had not decided to prepare his winter defense early.

2. Nevertheless, I sense that the Soviet offensive capabilities would have been pretty much what they were in the game, even if the Axis had advanced further, and the Axis defense would have been that much weaker.

3. The blizzard affects both sides (I could barely advance after attacking) but the impact on the Axis is far greater. I felt that my ability to execute attacks all along the front, with rest periods, throughout the period Dec to Feb and then to continue these in the mud turns showed that my forces were overpowered.

4. My recent game against the AI in the Stalingrad scenario that was released in these forums a short time ago confirmed to me that there are some big issues - I took Stalingrad in 4 turns because as soon as the Axis units were cut off they just fell to pieces. IMO these issues really need to be addressed before WiTE 2 comes out.

5. Finally, I think that the fact that I have to play badly (whether deliberately or not) in order for the Axis player to get a quasi-historical '41 outcome indicates that if we are talking about a WW2 simulation then we need some major changes and not mere tweaks. For example, the no retreat orders on both sides came from Stalin and Hitler respectively. In the game, the player is acting as the senior military commander, not as the national leader, so why can't he be bound by these historical orders? This should at least be a game option, set at the start, for the front line Soviet armies to have very limited move capabilities for the first n turns. More is probably needed, but I will leave that to others to debate.

PBEM players should always be free to explore the historical what-ifs to their hearts content and I have absolutely no issue with that. However, players who want to play within some kind of historical context must also be supported.

That's my End-ex signal