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RE: oob question
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:40 pm
by JWE
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
There does seem to have been a USAT named President Johnson. Apparently an ex-APL liner of 1904. Very little data on her, except that she was at sea enroute Hawaii with the 2nd/138th FA Battalion on December 7, 1941.
Yep, you're right. Originally Manchiria, built 1904 for Pacific Mail. Confused her with her sister Mongolia also built 1904 for Pacific Mail, transfered to Panamanian registry in 1940. Oopsy daisy.
RE: oob question
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:56 pm
by Zebedee
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
There does seem to have been a USAT named President Johnson. Apparently an ex-APL liner of 1904. Very little data on her, except that she was at sea enroute Hawaii with the 2nd/138th FA Battalion on December 7, 1941.
Data is given as 615' length, 16,111 Gross Tons, twin screwed, 11,000 hp = 16 kts. Build Camden, NJ in 1904 and still on the APL lists in 1939. She is listed as allocated to the army (not a time or bare boat charter).
One source indicates she was transfered to the Navy after Pearl Harbor but I can find no data on her in Navy lists. She survived the war and was renamed Santa Cruz under Panamanian flag in 1947.
Bit of a mystery. Anyone got more data??
WWI vintage USS Manchuria?
http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/m3/manchuria.htm edit: well I guess there's a bit more info at the USN link, sorry to repeat jwe's post - should refresh before posting heh.
RE: oob question
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:18 pm
by Don Bowen
Good data. Thanks!
RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:07 pm
by Zebedee
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Yes, could be "Bathhurst" confusion. I've seen a couple of vague references to Dumana in Australia but this is by far the best data I have ever seen. Thanks.
Have been doing some digging about and although Dunmana may not have been to Oz (absent proof positive), her sister ship Manela (same yard, 1921) was a tender (officially Seaplane Depot Ship) in the Pacific. (Sorry not checked for her being in the game already.) She kept nipping in and out of the theatre (Africa - Aden - Madagascar during 1942)until the Burmese and Malayan invasions of the latter stages of the war.
World Merchant Shipping 1939 gives the following on her:
Steam turbine, two screws, 135 passengers, 1921 by Curle (Glasgow), grt 8303, deadweight 10695, 465-2' x 58-4' x 28-0', 13 knots.
Hope it's of use.
RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:32 pm
by Herrbear
ORIGINAL: Zebedee
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Yes, could be "Bathhurst" confusion. I've seen a couple of vague references to Dumana in Australia but this is by far the best data I have ever seen. Thanks.
Have been doing some digging about and although Dunmana may not have been to Oz (absent proof positive), her sister ship Manela (same yard, 1921) was a tender (officially Seaplane Depot Ship) in the Pacific. (Sorry not checked for her being in the game already.) She kept nipping in and out of the theatre (Africa - Aden - Madagascar during 1942)until the Burmese and Malayan invasions of the latter stages of the war.
World Merchant Shipping 1939 gives the following on her:
Steam turbine, two screws, 135 passengers, 1921 by Curle (Glasgow), grt 8303, deadweight 10695, 465-2' x 58-4' x 28-0', 13 knots.
Hope it's of use.
Manela is in the game as a Dominion L Cargo xAK class ship. Ship #9257
RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:03 pm
by Zebedee
ORIGINAL: Herrbear
Manela is in the game as a Dominion L Cargo xAK class ship. Ship #9257
Thanks Herrbear. I'm still a clutz at trying to use the editor. According to John Evans (The Sunderland vol 3), Manela was called into service in October 1939 and was used as a base for London flying-boats in the Shetlands originally. Pre-war she did the Karachi-Bombay run and the Calcutta - Oz run. During the Burma/Malaya campaigns, she supported 230 squadron's Sunderlands.
edit: links to a couple of pics.
Manela and her
profile
RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:13 am
by Mynok
This thread makes me wish I had more interest in ships other than the wooden types growing up. Still pretty much an age of sail junkie, but Witp has certainly expanded my horizons there.
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:01 am
by TIMJOT
Thanks Don, I believe the 70th Pursuit squadron and ground elements of the 7th BG were also embarked. Does this mean that the Johnson may be included in the next oob update? Also sources say that "a" President Garfield left with the President Johnson (albeit separately) with reinforcements for USAFFE as well. Now the old Garfield became the Madison and that we know was in the proximity of the PI when war broke out. So I assume that it must be the C3-A President Garfield prior being taken over by the navy and renamed President Jefferson, but in the game the President Jefferson doesnt enter the game until March 42 at Balboa. So I guess I am a bit confused. Any clarification?
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
There does seem to have been a USAT named President Johnson. Apparently an ex-APL liner of 1904. Very little data on her, except that she was at sea enroute Hawaii with the 2nd/138th FA Battalion on December 7, 1941.
Data is given as 615' length, 16,111 Gross Tons, twin screwed, 11,000 hp = 16 kts. Build Camden, NJ in 1904 and still on the APL lists in 1939. She is listed as allocated to the army (not a time or bare boat charter).
One source indicates she was transfered to the Navy after Pearl Harbor but I can find no data on her in Navy lists. She survived the war and was renamed Santa Cruz under Panamanian flag in 1947.
Bit of a mystery. Anyone got more data??
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:10 am
by Don Bowen
ORIGINAL: TIMJOT
Thanks Don, I believe the 70th Pursuit squadron and ground elements of the 7th BG were also embarked. Does this mean that the Johnson may be included in the next oob update? Also sources say that "a" President Garfield left with the President Johnson (albeit separately) with reinforcements for USAFFE as well. Now the old Garfield became the Madison and that we know was in the proximity of the PI when war broke out. So I assume that it must be the C3-A President Garfield prior being taken over by the navy and renamed President Jefferson, but in the game the President Jefferson doesnt enter the game until March 42 at Balboa. So I guess I am a bit confused. Any clarification?
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
There does seem to have been a USAT named President Johnson. Apparently an ex-APL liner of 1904. Very little data on her, except that she was at sea enroute Hawaii with the 2nd/138th FA Battalion on December 7, 1941.
Data is given as 615' length, 16,111 Gross Tons, twin screwed, 11,000 hp = 16 kts. Build Camden, NJ in 1904 and still on the APL lists in 1939. She is listed as allocated to the army (not a time or bare boat charter).
One source indicates she was transfered to the Navy after Pearl Harbor but I can find no data on her in Navy lists. She survived the war and was renamed Santa Cruz under Panamanian flag in 1947.
Bit of a mystery. Anyone got more data??
Ships for Convoy 4003 were beginning to assemble. I think three or maybe four had left the West Coast for Hawaii. Somewhere I have the ships and what they carried, but no idea where. I don't believe I have the exact ship for some of the units. I assume there would have been other ships in the convoy as several other army units were alerted to load at West Coast ports in the next few days.
Convoy 4002 (the Pensacola Convoy) was of course still enroute and 4001 (the Boise Convoy) had already arrived and dispersed.
And, of course USAT Ludington was proceeding independently with a high-value cargo of 20 P-40E.
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:59 am
by Don Bowen
As far as I can tell, the army ships are sea were:
Transports Etolin, Tasker H Bliss, President Johnson, and President Garfield - enroute Hawaii from West Coast.
Luriline, enroute West Coast from Hawaii
Hugh L Scott and President Coolidge returning West Coast from Philippines
Republic and W.A. Holbrook enroute Philippines in the Pensacola Convoy
Freighters Cynthia Olson, Malama, Jupiter, and Montgomery City enroute Hawaii from West Coast (not sure of destination for last two)
Ludington enroute Philippines via Christmas and Canton Islands and then the Torres Strait.
Bloemfontein and Meigs in the Pensacola Convoy
Mauna Loa, Portmar and Jane Christenson, destinations unknown but probably Philippines. Diverted to Australia.
James (or John?) Lykes enroute Hawaii from Philippines, having been part of Boise Convoy. Diverted to Cebu, then NEI. Not sure, may have been voyage chartered and charter expired upon unload in Manila.
RE: upgrade question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:09 am
by Speedysteve
ORIGINAL: Speedy
Seems like some ships have more ammo than their max allows in the Aleutians Scenario anyhow.....?
Bump[:)]
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:14 am
by m10bob
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:25 am
by Cavalry Corp
In Guadal Canal scn I also have allied ships starting with more ammo than the brackets which i assume is the maximum. I also have some CA I think loaded with less 8 inch shells
cav
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:51 am
by JWE
ORIGINAL: TIMJOT
Thanks Don, I believe the 70th Pursuit squadron and ground elements of the 7th BG were also embarked. Does this mean that the Johnson may be included in the next oob update? Also sources say that "a" President Garfield left with the President Johnson (albeit separately) with reinforcements for USAFFE as well. Now the old Garfield became the Madison and that we know was in the proximity of the PI when war broke out. So I assume that it must be the C3-A President Garfield prior being taken over by the navy and renamed President Jefferson, but in the game the President Jefferson doesnt enter the game until March 42 at Balboa. So I guess I am a bit confused. Any clarification?
Hi TIMJOT. The Garfield is the SS President Garfield, a C3-A-P&C, built for American President Lines, 1941. After PH she had 2 additional voyage charters for the Navy in the Pacific and returned to the Atlantic in January, 1942. In April, 1942, she began Navalization conversion to an AP at Newport News SB & DD Co. Officially acquired by the Navy, May, 1, 1942. Completed conversion and commissioned USS Thomas Jefferson (AP-60), August, 1942. Transited the canal to return to Pacific service, September, 1942.
RE: oob question
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:46 pm
by TIMJOT
Thanks Don great info, BTW what happen to all those wonderful at sea merchant shipping that were in CHS? I thought it was one of the best features of CHS. Any reason they were not included in AE? Also, because I know you like this stuff here is an interesting link that confirms anecdotally that at least part of the ground echelon for the 19th BG were embarked on the Pres.Johnson.
http://www.ww2pacific.com/johnson.html
ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
As far as I can tell, the army ships are sea were:
Transports Etolin, Tasker H Bliss, President Johnson, and President Garfield - enroute Hawaii from West Coast.
Luriline, enroute West Coast from Hawaii
Hugh L Scott and President Coolidge returning West Coast from Philippines
Republic and W.A. Holbrook enroute Philippines in the Pensacola Convoy
Freighters Cynthia Olson, Malama, Jupiter, and Montgomery City enroute Hawaii from West Coast (not sure of destination for last two)
Ludington enroute Philippines via Christmas and Canton Islands and then the Torres Strait.
Bloemfontein and Meigs in the Pensacola Convoy
Mauna Loa, Portmar and Jane Christenson, destinations unknown but probably Philippines. Diverted to Australia.
James (or John?) Lykes enroute Hawaii from Philippines, having been part of Boise Convoy. Diverted to Cebu, then NEI. Not sure, may have been voyage chartered and charter expired upon unload in Manila.
RE: oob question
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:19 am
by pad152
Campaign 2
Japanese type SS class (1981) Subs have no torpedoes only a 25mm gun!
Editor Ships Ha-101 - Ha-112 (1003 -1014)
Same with the YU class (1985) subs, no torpedoes
Editor Ships Yu-01 - Yu-10 (1015-1024)
Same with the Type D1 class (1965) Subs, no torpedoes
Editor Ships I- 361 -373 (1187 - 1199)
RE: oob question
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:12 am
by Iron Duke
they mav be transport subs - torpedo tubes removed to carry more cargo - to isolated garrisons?
RE: oob question
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:19 am
by Dili
Maybe this could help. List and photos of some Shell ships, some captured by Japanese:
http://www.cnooks.nl/shell.htm and
http://www.cnooks.nl/
RE: oob question
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:05 pm
by pad152
moved to land oob!
RE: oob question
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:35 pm
by JWE
ORIGINAL: pad152
Campaign 2
Japanese type SS class (1981) Subs have no torpedoes only a 25mm gun!
Editor Ships Ha-101 - Ha-112 (1003 -1014)
Same with the YU class (1985) subs, no torpedoes
Editor Ships Yu-01 - Yu-10 (1015-1024)
Same with the Type D1 class (1965) Subs, no torpedoes
Editor Ships I- 361 -373 (1187 - 1199)
All campaign games.
Certain subs upgrading/converting to transport subs (SST) in the game, have their torpedoes removed.
If that doesn't work for you, then don't upgrade/convert.
Torpedoes or Transport - it's your choice.
