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RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:24 pm
by Froonp
Strategic bombing doesn't actually affect a factory. Instead, it affects the total production points available to the Major Power. I haven't decided on how to indicate that. If there are 2 factories in the hex and strategic bombing has already inflicted the loss of 2 production points, then additional strategic bombing will have no effect (unless it is so successful that it destroys a factory). So, the information has to be available to the players somehow. I do not know how CWIF handled this. I'll read that code someday.
Maybe a stack could be colored black to show it has lost its Production Point (PP) ?
Or a black dot can appear below the stack whose PP was destroyed.
CWiF had a dialog showing the Strategic Bombing losses (Info / Strategic Bombing), but it could be better if it was also displayed visualy on the screen so that one knows that all PP are destroyed on a given factory in case of a second wave of bombers is in preparation.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:27 pm
by dhatchen
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Yes, they are all darker clear hexes (a couple touches of green have been added).
Curiously enough, I specifically requested that the artist change the background color for the resource hex from the paper maps. I find the orange too much of a contrast with the rest of the map's color scheme.
The partial usage of the factories (one smoking and two not smoking) is already part of the code for the game (compliments of Chris).
These screen shots do not show damaged factories and resources. They look like functioning ones but with a diagonal red line across the icon. Individual factories can be damaged while others in the hex are not. When oil resources are damaged, I will have the program add another icon to the hex if necessary. For example, the polesti oil fields could be providing 3 oil resources with the 4th one damaged. There would be a icon of 3 good and a second icon of 1 damaged.
Ports can also be damaged and they are also shown with a diagonal red line across the icon.
The clear looks better.
I agree with Froonp, I like the rounded orange resource bestest.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:39 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Froonp
Strategic bombing doesn't actually affect a factory. Instead, it affects the total production points available to the Major Power. I haven't decided on how to indicate that. If there are 2 factories in the hex and strategic bombing has already inflicted the loss of 2 production points, then additional strategic bombing will have no effect (unless it is so successful that it destroys a factory). So, the information has to be available to the players somehow. I do not know how CWIF handled this. I'll read that code someday.
Maybe a stack could be colored black to show it has lost its Production Point (PP) ?
Or a black dot can appear below the stack whose PP was destroyed.
CWiF had a dialog showing the Strategic Bombing losses (Info / Strategic Bombing), but it could be better if it was also displayed visualy on the screen so that one knows that all PP are destroyed on a given factory in case of a second wave of bombers is in preparation.
I haven't gotten to the straits hexsides yet. Those icons need replacement (as do the fortifications). The subtle point you are making is good, but fairly demanding on the programming - I believe this is the only place where this kind of a problem arises. Writing special code just for one place on the map goes against my instincts.
I want to review the attack arrows (I thought they were pretty good in CWIF) and other indications of committed actions (ground strikes, ground support, etc.). I also want something new for naval combat that can be shown visually in the sea areas, using the sea boxes.
How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:47 pm
by Froonp
How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.
Yes, good for me.
The X in WiF is the synonym to "destroyed", so I think it shows that the output of this stack is destroyed.
Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:12 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Froonp
How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.
Yes, good for me.
The X in WiF is the synonym to "destroyed", so I think it shows that the output of this stack is destroyed.
Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.
Yes. I used "out of commission" to mean that the production point is lost for a turn. "Out of commisssion" is a typical sign that is hung on machinery that isn't currently working. I do a lot of writing and I get bored using the same words over and over again. I am aware that I throw in odd words from time to time. I rationalize it to myself by saying that maybe it has the same meaning in French, or if not, then it is an opportunity to teach a new word. I apologize if it is annoying - but it is a habit of a lifetime.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:41 am
by Incy
ORIGINAL: Yohan
I really like the art. Factories in particular. I think the size of the resource markers is great as it does not overshadow the hex. I agree that you can take the numbers off the resources if there is only one.
I also agree the oil marker looks great. The square resources may take a bit of getting used to.
I like the city designs, I think it looks cool.
Hindenburg is now Zabrze (and in Poland).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabrze
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:45 am
by dhatchen
ORIGINAL: Froonp
Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.
As a French speaker, your English has been impeccable on these posts. I have read them all and it showed only a couple of times. I wish my French was as good.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:27 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
Hindenburg up in flames! For Patrice.
Here are the darker rivers with darker clear and forest terrain. I believe the difference between the forest and swamp is more noticeable now.
I have fixed a bug in drawing the rail lines and made some other modifications to smooth them out. The hex west of Lodz has a better intersection and so does the hex east of Katowice. Some names still need to be repositioned (an never ending task, it seems).
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:30 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
Here are the lakes and rivers with darker blue outlines. I have modified the coastal hexes so they match.
Notice the new iced-in port symbols for both minor and major ports.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:35 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
This screen shot is at level 6 zoom. The rivers are somewhat muddy (simulating after a heavy rain?). Eventually I will come back to the rivers to improve how they look at all levels of zoom. This is good enough for now.
Metz is still misplaced. I have only messed around with it about 20 times. I have put in the ability to position icons at 25 different points within a hex. It is letting me improve the placements of some icons, but mainly helps with the rail lines.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:41 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
here is a view at level 4 zoom (I'm pretty sure it's level 4). The coastal rail lines are looking good in Spain.
Eventually, I will make the rail lines less jerky, but that isn't essential at this point. 95% of them are fine.
I am also waiting for the alpine hexsides. The artist is working on them next. I have given him a lot of latitude on their design, figuring I can guide the rail lines and place the icons out of their way. That does remain to be seen though.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:43 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
This is a screen shot of one of my problem areas. Getting the rail lines to stay dry west of Athens was difficult. And now I await the alpine hexside graphics to see what further twists and turns the this particualr rail line will need to take.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:50 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
Last in the series.
One of the goals for changing the bitmap for Forest terrain was to differentitate them from Swamp. This is one of the hardest tests for that.
The Forest still looks quite different from Jungle. In the future I'll try to include a screen shot which includes both of them - when I have something else to show.
The resource icons still have the number 1 on them. I'll get the artist to remove it from both the oil and non-oil resources. But that got me to thinking, ....
How about removing the numbers completely and just placing multiple copies of the icon in a hex that has more than 1? 2, 3, and even 4 resource icons would be easy to fit into a hex - with no overlap. That's because the hexes that have multiple resources have little if anything else in them.
Wadda ya think?
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:00 am
by stretch
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Last in the series.
One of the goals for changing the bitmap for Forest terrain was to differentitate them from Swamp. This is one of the hardest tests for that.
The Forest still looks quite different from Jungle. In the future I'll try to include a screen shot which includes both of them - when I have something else to show.
The resource icons still have the number 1 on them. I'll get the artist to remove it from both the oil and non-oil resources. But that got me to thinking, ....
How about removing the numbers completely and just placing multiple copies of the icon in a hex that has more than 1? 2, 3, and even 4 resource icons would be easy to fit into a hex - with no overlap. That's because the hexes that have multiple resources have little if anything else in them. Wadda ya think?
I have no trouble separating the swamp from the forest. But I have 20-20 eyes and no color blindness, so I am easy to please.
I think the resource thing might work. How about this.. use the current icon for a single resource, and a slightly larger one for multiples and put a number under it. Single resources have no number, only multiple.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:07 am
by scout1
Shannon,
How about a Hot Key that overlays a letter on each hex identifying the type of terrain. Witp has a similar feature that does this along with supply paths, ZOC, etc .... Makes for a clean, quick check and doesn't matter whether you're colorblind or not.....
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:20 am
by lomyrin
The map now looks fine with a clear distinction between forest and swamp. The rivers also stand out well.
Multiple icons to show more than one resource in a hex is a good idea as long as they are clearly visible at say a level 4 zoom.
Lars
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:28 am
by lomyrin
In the latest screenshot of Greece it seems that the land connection between the Athens hex and the hex to the southwest of Athens requires close scrutiny to see.
I believe that a 'no mistake about it' substantial connection between hexes is helpful to players in that they can then at a glance see and plan for their moves, present and future. Even if this would distort the geographical aspect of the maps some it helps.
Lars
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:39 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: lomyrin
In the latest screenshot of Greece it seems that the land connection between the Athens hex and the hex to the southwest of Athens requires close scrutiny to see.
I believe that a 'no mistake about it' substantial connection between hexes is helpful to players in that they can then at a glance see and plan for their moves, present and future. Even if this would distort the geographical aspect of the maps some it helps.
Lars
A valid point but I am not happy about going over all the 5000+ coastal hexes and revising them for absolute clarity.
This ties in with the question of how to display all sea hexsides. That subject also is still unresolved in my mind.
I'm going to let these both simmer for a while and perhaps someone will have a clever idea for communincating them clearly within the ambience of the current interface. I prefer to let messy areas like this alone while I work on items that have obvious solutions. Oftentimes filling in other details of the map/unit/rule/system leads to an easy and obvious solution to something that had been placed by the wayside for a while.
In other words: "Yeah it's a problem; I don't know how to fix it easily; I'll figure it out later."[;)]
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:07 am
by Regor
As far as i can see you use black lines to divide hexes on land and blue lines with coastal hexes, if the line was black all the way to the actual shore line and a bit thicker it would become more visible.
RE: Maps for MWIF
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:41 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Regor
As far as i can see you use black lines to divide hexes on land and blue lines with coastal hexes, if the line was black all the way to the actual shore line and a bit thicker it would become more visible.
Something similar was suggested a few weeks ago. My problem with this solution is that I do not want to rely on something subtle, like a slightly thicker black line versus a thin blue line. After all, Lomyrin's complaint was that the distinction between impassable all sea hexsides versus traversable land connected hexes was too difficult to see.
Of course, making something "easy to see", while simultaneously not adding graphics that are outside the MWIF palette of colors and thematic scheme, is hard to do.