Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Is this against German AI (and you playing Soviets)?

Yes, I'll put together an AAR at some point (don't won't to hijack this one), but this is a '41 GC as the Soviets against German AI, normal difficulty. 

My point was the tanks show their worth when you can get them past the line, and let them run wild (like Patton after Cobra, or Guderian lunging for the Channel).  If the enemy doesn't have the reserves on hand to quickly corral them, they'll be in trouble in a hurry.

Sure, but that goes for all mobile formations, and my point was that motorized infantry can do the same job just as well or better in WITE. And since those were cheaper, one cannot help wondering why people would bother to build tanks if they had so little effect.

Yes, all very true, but one would expect some kind of bonus for a well balanced combined arms force, but it just seems that the infantry is just as well off without the tanks. Basically, motorized infantry does the job as good as or better than a balanced mechanized formation.

In the game, as long as you're making attacking that work, the main advantage you get from tanks is that they allow you to inflict a reasonable numbers of casualties whilst your own losses remain low because most of your force consists of AFV's. Of course, mediocre experience units suffer, but (especially with some combat changes we're testing) AFV losses won't be too high generally.

With infantry, you expose more men when delivering a punch and you're as such more likely to take heavy losses. Of course, the lack of a chase phase is a bit problematic in terms of limiting mobile unit effectiveness in combat, but the overall lower friendly casualties for a fair number of enemy casualties can be quite an improvement compared to battles fought by infantry divisions.

As to Goodwood and similar operations: the Commonwealth forces (and other Western Allied forces) tried to wage the war more with firepower than with individual unit quality or operational finesse through good leadership, both things which the Western Allies lacked, from that perspective leading with tanks could be viewed as a sensible strategy even though it can also be a disaster. The many minor skirmishes in Germany where some mobile spearhead entered a village, resulting in the lead tanks being knocked out through Panzerfausts/Panzerschrecks or (self-propelled) AT guns show that there are also serious problems with the doctrine, as such events caused a formation to be slowed down for hours as infantry needed to be moved up to remove what often amounted to little more than a few dozen elderly men or kids in buildings.

Turn 76. November 26 1942. Snow.

Continued Soviet attacks, as usual in selected hexes along the front. No breakthroughs. Below is the active part of the front before Axis moves, showing Soviet attacks.

Here are the statistics from the battles. These numbers are not sustainable for the Germans in the long run...

Your line is holding quiet well but it seems that your opponent takes his time, attacking a bit all along the front.When and where do you think he will launch a massive attack ?
He has lost around 600 afv. That's a lot ! or maybe he has plenty of them in his pool...Good luck anyway ! [;)]

A Luftwaffe Field division on its way to the front. I usually follow a "disband on sight"-policy towards these, but I save one or two and break them down into regiments for digging and anti-partisan duties.

Front after Axis moves. Slowly giving ground when the position becomes untenable due to too many hexes with destroyed fortifications. I am a little worried that I will run out of fortifications, as they are much slower to build in winter.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

How is your Moscow situation?

The bulge there seems very very narrow and I would be concerned with winter coming...

I am not too worried right now. I am sure the Ivans would love to cut it off, but if they couldnt do it in clear, I doubt they will be able to do it in snow. This is the winter of 42-43 coming up, so no blizzard effects.

I have no doubt that the Moscow bulge will be an issue eventually though, and naturally I am a bit reluctant to give up Moscow freely...

How is you Moscow situation now?

In you large map I think I saw that Red Army is almost there (i.e. that you were pushed back)!

This big bulge was, IMHO, great invitation for the Soviets... Germans must be cautious here...


Leo "Apollo11"

I gave up a hex of Moscow freely. [:(]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

I gave up a hex of Moscow freely. [:(]

I was afraid of that... that's why I asked about Moscow few days ago in the first place...

Best of luck!


Leo "Apollo11"

Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad - locations with more than one hex - are the only places I know of where something like "street fighting" can take place. Question: does anyone know how how combat results are calculated ? Is an attack from outside an urban hex handled the same way then urban-urban combat?

The initial engagement ranges are already much reduced for urban fighting.

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

I gave up a hex of Moscow freely. [:(]

I was afraid of that... that's why I asked about Moscow few days ago in the first place...

Best of luck!


Leo "Apollo11"

I will post a better map of the Moscow region when I do the next turn. Basically, I was being slowly outflanked, and I didn't want to risk having units encircled in Moscow. The benefits from keeping the city (near non existent) did not outweigh the risks.

Turn 77. 3 December 1942.

Another wave of Soviet attacks.

Losses from the last Soviet turn. If this was all about AFVs, I would rule [8D].

Closeup of the Moscow area. I give up another hex of Moscow...

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Closeup of the Moscow area. I give up another hex of Moscow...

<SIGH>

Perhaps in the summer you can counterattack and retake Moscow...


Leo "Apollo11"

Turn 78. December 10 1942.

Another wave of Soviet attacks. They are getting more and more numerous. A novelty for this week is that they are now attacking across the frozen Dnepr in the south.

Losses form the preceding Soviet turn. Over 70k is bad, almost as bad as first blizzard. The Wehrmacht will not be able to take this in the long run.

Closeup of the Moscow area. The Reds are making a concerted effort to flank the city. Nothing to do but give up another couple of hexes.