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RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:56 pm
by Tiornu
By the time of Pearl Harbor, all Japanese destroyers from Hatsuharu on had Long Lances. None of the Special Type units were modifed for them until summer 1943.
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:48 pm
by JWE
ORIGINAL: Tiornu
By the time of Pearl Harbor, all Japanese destroyers from Hatsuharu on had Long Lances. None of the Special Type units were modifed for them until summer 1943.
Uh oh. We have everything from Mutsuki on with 61cm Type 93s. Can't see anywhere that Fubukis had anything else. Can you find a reference, or is our OOB screwed?
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:56 pm
by Iridium
ORIGINAL: JWE
ORIGINAL: Tiornu
By the time of Pearl Harbor, all Japanese destroyers from Hatsuharu on had Long Lances. None of the Special Type units were modifed for them until summer 1943.
Uh oh. We have everything from Mutsuki on with 61cm Type 93s. Can't see anywhere that Fubukis had anything else. Can you find a reference, or is our OOB screwed?
There goes another month of work....[:D]
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:56 pm
by Nikademus
There was an older 61cm torpedo that was in use from before the Type93 deployed. Type 8 IIRC. Its not in the database.
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:41 pm
by DuckofTindalos
ORIGINAL: JWE
ORIGINAL: Tiornu
By the time of Pearl Harbor, all Japanese destroyers from Hatsuharu on had Long Lances. None of the Special Type units were modifed for them until summer 1943.
Uh oh. We have everything from Mutsuki on with 61cm Type 93s. Can't see anywhere that Fubukis had anything else. Can you find a reference, or is our OOB screwed?
I'd certainly like to see that as well, since it goes against everything else out there...
Oh, and the "Special" type were Kagero and Yugumo...
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:28 pm
by Dili
I have a slight reminding of reading about what Tiornu says. The 61 cm (24") Type 90 (1930) Heavy Cruisers and Fubuki destroyer classes is refered in
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTJAP_PreWWII.htm
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:41 pm
by Big B
Actually, I believe the "Special" type destroyers referred to the Fubuki's circa 1930...from what I have read.
ORIGINAL: Terminus
I'd certainly like to see that as well, since it goes against everything else out there...
Oh, and the "Special" type were Kagero and Yugumo...
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:58 pm
by Tiornu
The "Special Type" destroyers were the Fubukis and Akatsukis. they carried the Type 8 until around 1939 then switched to Type 90. The only ones to receive Long Lances were Akebono, Yugiri, Uranami, Ushio, Usugumo, and Hibiki at various times between Aug 1943 and Sep 1944. There has been some debate, but it seems that all Shiratsuyus and Hatsuharus were upgraded before Pearl Harbor. I believe the Asashios were the first to enter service complete with Long Lances.
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:30 am
by DuckofTindalos
Hmm, I guess the Fubukis were AKA "Special"... I thought it was Kagero/Yugumo.
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:51 am
by Jaroen
ORIGINAL: Tiornu
The "Special Type" destroyers were the Fubukis and Akatsukis. they carried the Type 8 until around 1939 then switched to Type 90. The only ones to receive Long Lances were Akebono, Yugiri, Uranami, Ushio, Usugumo, and Hibiki at various times between Aug 1943 and Sep 1944. There has been some debate, but it seems that all Shiratsuyus and Hatsuharus were upgraded before Pearl Harbor. I believe the Asashios were the first to enter service complete with Long Lances.
I was having some trust in:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm
Reading this I find the Kagero-class be called the "Special Type". For torpedoes used I only find those to be some 24-inch sized ones (hmmmm, sounds corny to me [;)] ). So those could as well be the older type. But during the Battle of the Java Sea many Long Lances were launched (can now only direct to the Wiki, also for cruisers + destroyers present). Because of other destroyer classes present it's not possible to be certain just from this source if Long Lances were launched from Kagero's but it seems likely from the huge number of Long Lances launched.
I am curious for sources stating differently . . .
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:07 pm
by Iridium
ORIGINAL: Terminus
Hmm, I guess the Fubukis were AKA "Special"... I thought it was Kagero/Yugumo.
Well, Fubuki was the first "Special" class if memory serves and practically every DD designed after was based on the whole "Special" idea. I also recall the Type 8 being mentioned, still a very good torpedo in comparison to other navies at the time.
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:57 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Disagree - I didn't totally pull numbers out of my hat. I did use really rough round numbers, but you can refine them as you like (search for where people have already done that).
The meteorite that hit around the Yucatan peninsula about 60,000,000+ years ago stands a huge chance of wiping out all humans alive if a similar one hit tomorrow. Apparently the frequency of big ones like that is roughly agreed upon by those who study such things. There were other big ones (but somewhat smaller) later than if you wish to include them. Last estimate for world population I heard was 6.7 billion. Don't remember the world average life span estimate so I did guess there.
As far as new technologies go, my understanding is that in the near future (dozens of years) we have nothing that could deploy in time to stop a comet (which is what we are talking about) because we would only know about the danger with at most a few months to spare.
I am just pointing out that the numbers surrounding rare+big events are hard to relate to for us humans and are usually surprising to us.
I am NOT advocating worry, doom, or any such thing and certainly do not advocate making up numbers. What are the chances of nuclear war? Any answer would be a made up number. I never did believe all those doomsayers in the early 80's who were announcing how close we were to nuclear annihilation. That was pure hokum.
I only pulled the meteor/comet number in because it is both a rare and big event and could therefore serve as a good illustration - no other reason.
[:)]
Sorry, i saw this and couldn't resist dusting off this discussion: [:D]
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:53 pm
by bigjoe96912
Yeah and that one was sunk by a british submarine lol
RE: Best Designed Ship of WWII
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:45 am
by Hornblower
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Disagree - I didn't totally pull numbers out of my hat. I did use really rough round numbers, but you can refine them as you like (search for where people have already done that).
The meteorite that hit around the Yucatan peninsula about 60,000,000+ years ago stands a huge chance of wiping out all humans alive if a similar one hit tomorrow. Apparently the frequency of big ones like that is roughly agreed upon by those who study such things. There were other big ones (but somewhat smaller) later than if you wish to include them. Last estimate for world population I heard was 6.7 billion. Don't remember the world average life span estimate so I did guess there.
As far as new technologies go, my understanding is that in the near future (dozens of years) we have nothing that could deploy in time to stop a comet (which is what we are talking about) because we would only know about the danger with at most a few months to spare.
I am just pointing out that the numbers surrounding rare+big events are hard to relate to for us humans and are usually surprising to us.
I am NOT advocating worry, doom, or any such thing and certainly do not advocate making up numbers. What are the chances of nuclear war? Any answer would be a made up number. I never did believe all those doomsayers in the early 80's who were announcing how close we were to nuclear annihilation. That was pure hokum.
I only pulled the meteor/comet number in because it is both a rare and big event and could therefore serve as a good illustration - no other reason.
[:)]
Sorry, i saw this and couldn't resist dusting off this discussion: [:D]
Glad you did! Fletchers, Essex, Baltimores and Gato's and for the DE fanboys the Hunts .. Honorable mention goes the Shokaku and Zuikaku. For the BB's i'll go with the Washington or South Dakota's....