Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Oh dear did the Germans turn up ?? . Mwahahahahahahahaha [:D]

Hm, just imagine how really bad England must have been, when they lost against this German team. [:'(]

You know, Germany is fighting for the third place in this WM and England is fighting for the best seats in the plane home, that´s the difference![:D]

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Oh dear did the Germans turn up ?? . Mwahahahahahahahaha [:D]

Warspite1

Fair play - the Germans played their part in this tournament; they were just nullified by a very good Spanish team.

Makes you pleased England didn't meet Spain on this form - that would have been embarrassing [X(]

The Germans will be back to haunt us......[&:]

ORIGINAL: Frank

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Oh dear did the Germans turn up ?? . Mwahahahahahahahaha [:D]

Hm, just imagine how really bad England must have been, when they lost against this German team. [:'(]

You know, Germany is fighting for the third place in this WM and England is fighting for the best seats in the plane home, that´s the difference![:D]

Warspite1

There is no need to imagine - we know; WE WERE %$£& - a complete and utter mess in all departments; clueless, lacking in basic ball control, no movement, unable to defend a route one clearance from the German goalie; just indescribably awful.........

Crowing because Germany lost in the semi-final, TWO ROUNDS after we were sent packing BY THEM is something of a pyrrhic victory don't you think moonraker?

Depressing to note too that (bearing in mind we go to every tournament expecting to win it) if you take away the records of countries that have hosted the World Cup (and the advantage that gives) e.g. England 66, Italy 34, France 98, Argentina 78, Sweden runners-up 58 etc etc, then England have a worse World Cup record - just off the top of my head - than Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Germany, France, Poland, Holland, Sweden, Hungary and Czechoslovakia.....I bet there are one or two others too. I HATE FOOTBALL [;)]

Since I have been rather contundent ("Spain or Germany to win the final": now that you have seen the Spanish midfield performance I guess you can understand why I said so [8D]) a curious anecdote (but TRUE).

Even if Holland loses, the Spanish victory is sort of a Dutch victory. Why? Because the football played by this Spanish team owes A LOT to Holland. Why (again)? Because a guy called Cruyff played for Barcelona many moons ago. Then he became coach of this team on the 90s. That team played an amazing football (DUTCH offensive football that is: 3-4-3). Cruyff was fired BUT the club decided that they should be keeping this football philosophy [8D] And that's where the two short midfield geniuses (Xavi & Iniesta) and many other excellent players come from!

What I have said, the current Spanish squad owes a lot to Dutch football. In case most of you didn't know this [:)]

Well, the truth is that there will be at least one player who is NOT going to lose: Van der Vaart. Since his father is Dutch and his mother Spanish [:D]

As I see it Germany should be the most successfull team in worldchampionships in the last 40 or so years. Germany seldom won, but was most time in the semifinals.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_F ... mannschaft : Germany
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englische_ ... mannschaft : England
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasiliani ... mannschaft : Brasil

Frank, on my book Brazil is the most succesfull, then Germany (NOT Italy: 2 WCs won before WW2 [;)]). And then of course Italy [:)]

Respect the octopus!!!   [;)]

Commentators are praising Spain for denying Germany good play. Which I think is certainly true for the 2nd half but the first half was showing two hesitant, testing teams. Didn't this match show a former point regarding the importance of a good midfield? The Spanish ruled! Spain deservingly won and it promises to be a great final with two teams both playing offensively and having strong midfields.

@Tullius: Regarding Kuyt I don't think I missed your point. He isn't the great striker and everybody agrees on that. We all know Kuyt isn't the great scorer, even the manager. But in the eyes of the manager Kuyt is offering something else to the team which I tried explaining.  So why is the manager maintaining him in the team and not replacing him with Huntelaar for example? Any answer is pure speculation since no manager has offered a straight answer.

Van Persie disappointing is also discussed verily at the Dutch tables. Which also shows how hard the job for a manager can be. What is wisdom? Breaking a winning team because a player is struggling or maintaining confidence while you're winning and hoping for his potential to come true??? What would you do?

What issues do the Spanish have, if any? The same disappointing strikers? Villa is the one feared in Holland, not Torres!

ORIGINAL: Frank

As I see it Germany should be the most successfull team in worldchampionships in the last 40 or so years. Germany seldom won, but was most time in the semifinals.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_F ... mannschaft : Germany
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englische_ ... mannschaft : England
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasiliani ... mannschaft : Brasil

Warspite1

Frank - that list was not in any order. It was just a list of those countries that had more success than England's paltry and solitary 4th place in 1990. I said it was off the top of my head - I managed to miss off Italy, whoops [X(]

I don't think anyone is disputing Germany's place in the football world order - least of all me.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Since I have been rather contundent ("Spain or Germany to win the final": now that you have seen the Spanish midfield performance I guess you can understand why I said so [8D]) a curious anecdote (but TRUE).

Even if Holland loses, the Spanish victory is sort of a Dutch victory. Why? Because the football played by this Spanish team owes A LOT to Holland. Why (again)? Because a guy called Cruyff played for Barcelona many moons ago. Then he became coach of this team on the 90s. That team played an amazing football (DUTCH offensive football that is: 3-4-3). Cruyff was fired BUT the club decided that they should be keeping this football philosophy [8D] And that's where the two short midfield geniuses (Xavi & Iniesta) and many other excellent players come from!

What I have said, the current Spanish squad owes a lot to Dutch football. In case most of you didn't know this [:)]

Well, the truth is that there will be at least one player who is NOT going to lose: Van der Vaart. Since his father is Dutch and his mother Spanish [:D]

Mario Gomez is also half-spanish, and I bet he's not happy!!

But you're abso-fucking-lutely right about Cruyff.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Since I have been rather contundent ("Spain or Germany to win the final": now that you have seen the Spanish midfield performance I guess you can understand why I said so [8D]) a curious anecdote (but TRUE).

Even if Holland loses, the Spanish victory is sort of a Dutch victory. Why? Because the football played by this Spanish team owes A LOT to Holland. Why (again)? Because a guy called Cruyff played for Barcelona many moons ago. Then he became coach of this team on the 90s. That team played an amazing football (DUTCH offensive football that is: 3-4-3). Cruyff was fired BUT the club decided that they should be keeping this football philosophy [8D] And that's where the two short midfield geniuses (Xavi & Iniesta) and many other excellent players come from!

What I have said, the current Spanish squad owes a lot to Dutch football. In case most of you didn't know this [:)]

Well, the truth is that there will be at least one player who is NOT going to lose: Van der Vaart. Since his father is Dutch and his mother Spanish [:D]

Heh, it looks like you were a bit quicker than me regarding that midfield point.
Cannot agree more on that Dutch influence on Spanish football! But that was some years ago really, with a very winning Barcelona only. Don't know how the Spanish think about it now?

One other reason that final could be interesting!

ORIGINAL: Jaroen

Respect the octopus!!!   [;)]

Commentators are praising Spain for denying Germany good play. Which I think is certainly true for the 2nd half but the first half was showing two hesitant, testing teams. Didn't this match show a former point regarding the importance of a good midfield? The Spanish ruled! Spain deservingly won and it promises to be a great final with two teams both playing offensively and having strong midfields.

@Tullius: Regarding Kuyt I don't think I missed your point. He isn't the great striker and everybody agrees on that. We all know Kuyt isn't the great scorer, even the manager. But in the eyes of the manager Kuyt is offering something else to the team which I tried explaining.  So why is the manager maintaining him in the team and not replacing him with Huntelaar for example? Any answer is pure speculation since no manager has offered a straight answer.

Van Persie disappointing is also discussed verily at the Dutch tables. Which also shows how hard the job for a manager can be. What is wisdom? Breaking a winning team because a player is struggling or maintaining confidence while you're winning and hoping for his potential to come true??? What would you do?

What issues do the Spanish have, if any? The same disappointing strikers? Villa is the one feared in Holland, not Torres!

I said we have the best midfield. That guarantees you posession and initiative. ABout the strikers and the finishing problem: it's hard to finish goals when you don't generate many clear chances, because the other team is behind the ball. There were times this match in which ALL the german players except the odd couple of strikers were behind the ball, defending. How can you score that way?.

And also, Germans have a very good midfield. They were slightly more open than other teams, so I guess that's the reason why this match was a little bit better.

ORIGINAL: Jaroen

Heh, it looks like you were a bit quicker than me regarding that midfield point.
Cannot agree more on that Dutch influence on Spanish football! But that was some years ago really, with a very winning Barcelona only. Don't know how the Spanish think about it now?

One other reason that final could be interesting!

Cruyff still has A LOT of influence on the Barça right now. Until two or three weeks ago, when the club held elections and the supporters chose another president, Cruyff was "President of Honor", a symbolic position with no power.

Even when he had not that position, he wrote his opinions in some sport newspapers, and his opinions are held in high regard by Barça supporters. They still see the time when Cruyff was the manager as the best time (until last wonderful Barça year).

Anyway, I suppose that any Barça supporter knows a little bit better. I'm a Real Madrid supporter. [:D]

And by the way, since no one mentioned it... Paul The Octopus has striked again! [:D]

Jaroen, this Dutch influence was TODAY on the pitch. Xavi and Iniesta are Barcelona players. They learned this "Dutch" football since they were kids (in Barça academy).

Though I have no octopus to comfort my prediction,  I think the Netherlands (not Holland please!) have a good cance of winning. Why? Simple. Every team who met the Spanish simply conceded the field by going over to the defensive and leaving the initiative in Spanish hands. The Dutch don't have that option. Their defence is weak and their only strongpoint is in the attack. Guess what they'll do???[:D] Though once again I think that on paper the Spanish are the better team man for man, my guess is that the Dutch will prevail. It should be a good final I must say.
 
The Germans have felt the lack of Muller (another one in their history...). Ozil was lost, Podolski was only working part-time and Khedira, where the heck was he? Cross would have been of more use if he had come on at the begining at the second half. In a way, I think that Lowe screwed up this one by putting his team on a complete defence. Let's face it, all teams tried the tactic but only 1 team managed to pull it off and it was quite a fluke. Frankly losing 1-0 and 4-0 is still losing, so why defend a l'outrance???? I say go for the jugular and put them under pressure. The Spanish defence is nothing extraordinary and once the Germans attacked (and not only), they seemed ready to buckle. To put it bluntly, a team with a quick striker and a decent playmaker can go through the centre without too much effort. It is in the midfield and on the wings that the Spanish win their games, rather than in defence. 

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Though I have no octopus to comfort my prediction,  I think the Netherlands (not Holland please!) have a good cance of winning. Why? Simple. Every team who met the Spanish simply conceded the field by going over to the defensive and leaving the initiative in Spanish hands. The Dutch don't have that option. Their defence is weak and their only strongpoint is in the attack. Guess what they'll do???[:D] Though once again I think that on paper the Spanish are the better team man for man, my guess is that the Dutch will prevail. It should be a good final I must say.

The Germans have felt the lack of Muller (another one in their history...). Ozil was lost, Podolski was only working part-time and Khedira, where the heck was he? Cross would have been of more use if he had come on at the begining at the second half. In a way, I think that Lowe screwed up this one by putting his team on a complete defence. Let's face it, all teams tried the tactic but only 1 team managed to pull it off and it was quite a fluke. Frankly losing 1-0 and 4-0 is still losing, so why defend a l'outrance???? I say go for the jugular and put them under pressure. The Spanish defence is nothing extraordinary and once the Germans attacked (and not only), they seemed ready to buckle. To put it bluntly, a team with a quick striker and a decent playmaker can go through the centre without too much effort. It is in the midfield and on the wings that the Spanish win their games, rather than in defence. 

Hi Offworrlder,
I am not agree with your comment about spanish defense is nothing extraordinary... Pujol and Piqué are greats!, And Casillas is a excellent goalkeeper !... German have eliminated England and Argentina, excellent football teams but they were defeated by spanish with none goal..
Best wishes
ramón

ORIGINAL: Fletcher

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Though I have no octopus to comfort my prediction,  I think the Netherlands (not Holland please!) have a good cance of winning. Why? Simple. Every team who met the Spanish simply conceded the field by going over to the defensive and leaving the initiative in Spanish hands. The Dutch don't have that option. Their defence is weak and their only strongpoint is in the attack. Guess what they'll do???[:D] Though once again I think that on paper the Spanish are the better team man for man, my guess is that the Dutch will prevail. It should be a good final I must say.

The Germans have felt the lack of Muller (another one in their history...). Ozil was lost, Podolski was only working part-time and Khedira, where the heck was he? Cross would have been of more use if he had come on at the begining at the second half. In a way, I think that Lowe screwed up this one by putting his team on a complete defence. Let's face it, all teams tried the tactic but only 1 team managed to pull it off and it was quite a fluke. Frankly losing 1-0 and 4-0 is still losing, so why defend a l'outrance???? I say go for the jugular and put them under pressure. The Spanish defence is nothing extraordinary and once the Germans attacked (and not only), they seemed ready to buckle. To put it bluntly, a team with a quick striker and a decent playmaker can go through the centre without too much effort. It is in the midfield and on the wings that the Spanish win their games, rather than in defence. 

Hi Offworrlder,
I am not agree with your comment about spanish defense is nothing extraordinary... Pujol and Piqué are greats!, And Casillas is a excellent goalkeeper !... German have eliminated England and Argentina, excellent football teams but they were defeated by spanish with none goal..
Best wishes
ramón

Like he says:

- Casillas, easily, right now, the best goalkeeper in the world (though has had a bad year, but seems to be recovering)
- Pique and Puyol, official Barcelona defenders. Do you know how many goals they have conceded in the Champions League?. Very few.

Of course you can win, and I mean, I think that attacking is the best way to beat Spain, but, if we manage to control the midfield, and our strikers have a good day, we could easily win by 2 or 3 goals.

I think we will win. Anyway, I fear Robben more than any other player in the Championship.

Well my point was that we have not seen the Spanish team under pressure ever in this tournament. My guess is that it will happen against the Oranges. Mind you I also believe that if both go on the offensive we might have a goalfest for the final...[;)]

The young Germans were nervous and never played their game. Spain was by far the better team, but in this case I think the Germans handed them the initiative from the get go.

That said, this was a "bad matchup" for Germany. A counterattacking team plays into the hands of the uber possession hogging Spanish midfield. In other words, Germany couldn't play their game without handing the Spaniards exactly what they wanted.

Not an electric matchup, but you never felt the Germans had a chance, so good for Spain.

PS - No offense, but go Holland!

PPS - I told you they should pull Torres. When healthy, he's genius, but they played better without him today, IMHO.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: Bliztk
Germany offensive power is overrated IMHO, only played weak teams with offensive aspirations.

HAHAHA, 8 goals scored in the last 2 matches [:)]

Congatulations, Holland... *but... I stick to my prediction*

[:'(]

I thought that Germany was going to be more offensive, but after the first 10 minutes of the match, they were so scared that they had to defend with 10 players as all the other teams that have faced Spain.

Next stop Netherlands [;)]

Spanish citizenship for pulpo paul !!!!