Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Query: IJA intel believed that four of the "infantry divisions" in the Soviet Far East were "motorized." One - the 36th - had been identified as motorized in Mongolia before 1938. Any idea what the others were? Or if the intel appreciation was correct? Also - what does "motorized" mean? I assume artillery and support are motorized - but the infantry walks. Does it ride? Similarly - in 1941 there are three armored divisions (later disbanded) - in the Far East. By breaking them into armored brigades and infantry regiment, it does not matter they didn't stay one formation. But is that motorized infantry a riding formation?

36th and 57th Motorized Divisions (located in the Transbaikal District and Mongolia) were Motorized divisions and had their own TOE. They were the only Motorized Divisions in the Red Army; infantry was truck-mounted, artillery motorized and they had their own (organic) Tank Battalions (not related to 1939 Rifle Division Tank Battalions). Their organization (TOE) was not changed during the war and they still fielded BT-7 tanks in 1945. One of the Motorized Divisions saw action against the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 (have forgotten which, maybe it was the 36th).

There were two Tank Divisions in the Transbaikal MD (61st and 111th - both still existed in 1945) and two Tank Divisions (Ussuriiskaya and Amurskaya Tank Divisions) under Far Eastern Front in 1941 which were disbanded in 1942 (that means: their tank brigades became independent tank brigades; but is not clear if they ever had any infantry - possible for Ussuriiskaya, most unlikely for Amurskaya, I think). The tank divisions under Far Eastern Front were ad-hoc tank divisions without any fixed structure or TOE (if I remember correctly, Ussuriiskaya had five or six tank brigades under command in early 1942, Amurskaya two or three).

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison




So the Russian corps units will arrive as reinforcements now? Instead of the old upgrade system?

Yes, that is: The forces that were transferred from Europe in 1945 for Autumn Storm arrive in 1945. Forces that were formed in the Far East 1942-45 arrive as reinforcements at the dates they were formed (and forces that were transferred to Europe 1942-45 are withdrawn at the historical transfer dates).

Can the date of withdrawal be set using the editor?

Yes

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

For Soviets we have a totally re writted OOB and TOE and hardcoded routines like the convert to Corps are now removed.

So the Russian corps units will arrive as reinforcements now? Instead of the old upgrade system?

Yes, that is: The forces that were transferred from Europe in 1945 for Autumn Storm arrive in 1945. Forces that were formed in the Far East 1942-45 arrive as reinforcements at the dates they were formed (and forces that were transferred to Europe 1942-45 are withdrawn at the historical transfer dates).

Great news. Thanks for the reply Kereguelen.

Update
 
Not much to say we are neck deep in the AI all the land team final tweaks and fixes are on hold until we get the AI up and running.
 
Game looks good but land team is pretty much focussed on AI stuff for a few weeks.
 
A few more little snippets of info....
 
Supply is more important than ever now we have broken the link between resources and supply generation and with LCU's (especially Allied ones) having more devices they consume about 50% more supply than stock so you need to devote more of the AK's to supply movement. (Allied Divs take a LOT of supply now especially British and US ones)
 
Overstacking small atolls and islands by attacker OR defender hurts
 
 
 
Then we will be back to testing.
 
Andy

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Supply is more important than ever now we have broken the link between resources and supply generation and with LCU's (especially Allied ones) having more devices they consume about 50% more supply than stock so you need to devote more of the AK's to supply movement. (Allied Divs take a LOT of supply now especially British and US ones)

Very cool, and as it should be.

Land Units and Support

Why does every land unit have less than it's required support?

ORIGINAL: pad152

Land Units and Support

Why does every land unit have less than it's required support?

To show, as in real life, that combat units were dependent on support from higher headquarters (represented in game as HQs and base forces).

A standard US Infantry Division, for example, only had enough trucks to carry 1/3 of its soldiers in a single lift. If the division needed more trucks, it was assigned truck companies from Corps and Army HQs.

Fuel and supplies were distributed through Army and Corps depots. Basic maintenance of equipment could be done at the company/battalion level. Some repairs could be done at division facilities. Heavy repairs were done at Army-level depots.

US planners thought in terms of "division slices" -- which included all of the support personnel outside of the division necessary to keep it functioning.

In WitP, and in AE, any unit below Corps level will require additional support (base forces, HQs) to operate at full strength.

Units deprived of outside support will degrade to 70%-90% of their optimal combat ability.

This is fine Blackhorse, but I would think that HQs and Base Forces should be able to 'project' its extra support to some distance. As it is, you have to have a HQ of Base Force at any location you have an LCU or the LCU deteriates.

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
(and forces that were transferred to Europe 1942-45 are withdrawn at the historical transfer dates).

Any chance these withdrawals are cancelled if Japan has attacked? Seems kind of silly to have half your armies vanish off the map if Japan has troops storming half your bases.

Jim

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
(and forces that were transferred to Europe 1942-45 are withdrawn at the historical transfer dates).

Any chance these withdrawals are cancelled if Japan has attacked? Seems kind of silly to have half your armies vanish off the map if Japan has troops storming half your bases.

Jim

Unless of course the Nazi's are about to take Moscow....

The Soviet gamble for the Japanese will be but a whisp of a memory for JFB's when compared to the heady days of WitP Mk I. Between the beefed up Soviet OoB and the scaled back Japanese OoB....and the slowed pace of the game in general ...

To be clear the allied counterattack should also be slower what goes around comes around

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

To be clear the allied counterattack should also be slower what goes around comes around

Warning to Chez... you think I'm slow now, just you wait...[;)]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: pad152

Land Units and Support

Why does every land unit have less than it's required support?

To show, as in real life, that combat units were dependent on support from higher headquarters (represented in game as HQs and base forces).

A standard US Infantry Division, for example, only had enough trucks to carry 1/3 of its soldiers in a single lift. If the division needed more trucks, it was assigned truck companies from Corps and Army HQs.

Fuel and supplies were distributed through Army and Corps depots. Basic maintenance of equipment could be done at the company/battalion level. Some repairs could be done at division facilities. Heavy repairs were done at Army-level depots.

US planners thought in terms of "division slices" -- which included all of the support personnel outside of the division necessary to keep it functioning.

In WitP, and in AE, any unit below Corps level will require additional support (base forces, HQs) to operate at full strength.

Units deprived of outside support will degrade to 70%-90% of their optimal combat ability.

Agree, except for small units, US Marine Raider and other small units should have enough support to independent combat ops for short periods without losing 70-90% of it's ability!

Will there be more HQ for land units in AE?

"scaled back Japanese OoB" ???

Please explain!!

ORIGINAL: pad152

"scaled back Japanese OoB" ???

Please explain!!

Yes, please explain. I thought the idea was to have a historically accurate OOB.

Many units in the WitP Stock OOB are duplcates and or triplicates of units that already existed....look at the Japanese Armored units as an example. Others would be the NLF's which are double represented in stock by including infantry components in some of the base forces... Other examples include the Independent Mixed brigades (IMB) in China which in real life later upgraded to divisions...in stock you get the IMB At Start and keep it even after you receive the Division that it upgraded too...

Again for clarity the same thing happens to the allies i.e. the reduction in Australian Armour in 43, cannibalisation of the light horse to provide replacements for AIF, the withdrawal of 7th Armoured Bde, Malayan units disbanding, NZ units withdrawing to feed 2nd NZ Div in ME, 3rd NZ Div disbanding, Burma Corps HQ disbanding, etc etc.
 
Also a lot more allied units arrive understrength requiring time and supply to rebuild.
 
However this aspect is on balance probably more pronounced for the Japanese something that cause AI issues and we are working through it now.

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: pad152

"scaled back Japanese OoB" ???

Please explain!!

Yes, please explain. I thought the idea was to have a historically accurate OOB.

A very specific example is Kwajalein. In stock, the Kwajalein garrison is triple the historically accurate OOB. Scaling back was inappropriate language, historically accurate is sufficiently descriptive.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
(and forces that were transferred to Europe 1942-45 are withdrawn at the historical transfer dates).

Any chance these withdrawals are cancelled if Japan has attacked? Seems kind of silly to have half your armies vanish off the map if Japan has troops storming half your bases.

Jim

Unless of course the Nazi's are about to take Moscow....

The Soviet gamble for the Japanese will be but a whisp of a memory for JFB's when compared to the heady days of WitP Mk I. Between the beefed up Soviet OoB and the scaled back Japanese OoB....and the slowed pace of the game in general ...

Coolness.[8D]

Alright guys last chance if you have a favourite CW Leader to be put in speak now or forever hold your peace I am doing a last trawl through adding a few more Generals, TF Leaders and Air HQ Leaders (Air Comms/AVM and Air Marshalls) I am not to bothered about small LCU leaders its HQ level leaders, TF leaders and Divisional Level Generals
 
Cut off is tomorrow (Sunday)