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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Y'all" is still omnipresent in the South. I'm glad too. Folks that use "y'all" correctly are home folks.

Is there an incorrect way to use y'all? [&:]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Y'all" is still omnipresent in the South. I'm glad too. Folks that use "y'all" correctly are home folks.

Is there an incorrect way to use y'all? [&:]

It's one of the biggest debates in southern dialect-land. Traditionalists insist it is, and must only be, the second-person plural pronoun which formal English lacks. (The formal is "you", same as the singular, a fact that amuses my Spanish ESL students to no end.) In formal English one must add hand gestures or something to include the plural group in the "you", and that doesn't work in written English. So "y'all" (or ya'll" as it's sometimes, inexplicably, spelled) is a contraction of "you all" which indicates plurality and second-person state.

But. The inevitable but. Some, nay multitudes, insist on using it in singular in place of "you." To be homey, or "more" southern, or something. To your friend on the couch, "Ya'll ready to go to the movie?" You see this in movies and on TV a lot, put there by non-southern writers I presume. But I've seen it grow my whole life in the actual south too. I don't know if it stratifies by education or region or something else, but it's a thing.

I broke up the entire class in college English when the prof asked for the plural of you and I belted out "y'all".

And I thought the plural of you was youse. [;)]

To continue to hijack this thread, while ya'll definitely has it's roots in the south, I can say with satisfaction it also is used by the unwashed masses( all 2 or 3 hundred of them) in the way backs of the Rockies [;)]. Interesting, how nomenclature works it's way around the country like that.

<Edit>
Be sure you start reconning before you invade going forward. You have surprised John up to now, but he knows you're coming. He is sure to be beefing his defenses. I'm not sure an Indian division would do so well in The Great White North.

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

And I thought the plural of you was youse. [;)]

American: youz
British: yous
Ye Olde English: youse

[:D]

I am old and most of my ancestors are English. [8D]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm not sure an Indian division would do so well in The Great White North.

Canoerebel hand picked the Indian troops from those who lived in the Himalayas (India included Pakistan then). They are quite familiar with snow and cold and wind!.

"Yous" sounds Brummie, possibly scouse

Certainly not the Queens English!

I grew up in California and our informal second person plural pronoun was you guys. When I attended college in Louisiana and used you guys in mixed company the females would immediately take offense and respond "we aren't guys." It didn't take me very long to adapt to southern norms and adopt y'all to avoid upsetting the ladies. I've used y'all ever since as I've grown to appreciate the saved syllable.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Y'all" is still omnipresent in the South. I'm glad too. Folks that use "y'all" correctly are home folks.

Is there an incorrect way to use y'all? [&:]

Yes, "Yall want some sparkling water with yer grits." Now that just ain't right .....

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Y'all" is still omnipresent in the South. I'm glad too. Folks that use "y'all" correctly are home folks.

Is there an incorrect way to use y'all? [&:]

It's one of the biggest debates in southern dialect-land. Traditionalists insist it is, and must only be, the second-person plural pronoun which formal English lacks. (The formal is "you", same as the singular, a fact that amuses my Spanish ESL students to no end.) In formal English one must add hand gestures or something to include the plural group in the "you", and that doesn't work in written English. So "y'all" (or ya'll" as it's sometimes, inexplicably, spelled) is a contraction of "you all" which indicates plurality and second-person state.

But. The inevitable but. Some, nay multitudes, insist on using it in singular in place of "you." To be homey, or "more" southern, or something. To your friend on the couch, "Ya'll ready to go to the movie?" You see this in movies and on TV a lot, put there by non-southern writers I presume. But I've seen it grow my whole life in the actual south too. I don't know if it stratifies by education or region or something else, but it's a thing.

Ah. Yes. I see now.

I think my NC born and bred GF of the time taught me correct usage! [;)]

I was born in south-west pennsylvania and the plural for you was 'yinz'. I occasionally used it when I was young but grew out of it. It's original usage was 'yinz guys' as in "yinz guys want to go to the movies?" but it was abbreviated to 'yinz what to go to the movies?"

Oddly enough, there is the term 'yinzer' which can either be derogatory or a mark of pride depending on the usage.

8/1/43

Circus: Naval support at Dutch Harbor is quickly handling Abbott's Sys damage, which is down from 80 to 37 in two turns. She has a sister Fletcher with her at Dutch. The other two Fletchers damaged in the recent action arrived at Seattle to upgrade and repair.

5th Indian Div. is a stout unit and will be reinforced with other units. I have a general idea via recon what I'll face at Amchitka and the four islands to the west. There will be no surprise this time. John will know when I'm coming and he'll be prepared. But the other side to that coin is that the Allies need to find places to wage war efficiently against concentrated enemy positions. I'd much rather do so at my doorstep than have to sail deep into enemy country. Until the Allies have a decided carrier advantage, that'll be the modus operandi. Strike close to home where friendly airfields and ports are available.

Roller Coaster: A convoluted turn that probably left both John and I thinking "what might have been." Five IJN DDs bypass Jaluit (where my Fletchers were posted) and manage to intercept an xAK TF that was close to Mili, steaming at flank speed, and set to disband. I was fortunate that the embedded DD fought off the attackers in pretty good shape, with one xAK suffering moderate damage. But then my Fletcher TF intercepted the enemy. I lost a Fletcher to a torp in the ensuing combat. But then John's ships ended up just two hexes from the good airfield at Ailinglaplap, where I had SBDs and escorts ready to pounce. But they didn't pounce. Weather was a factor in the a.m. and perhaps John had configured a massive LRCAP trap so that I should be happy over the outcome.

Olustee and Kettle Creek arrived at Pearl today. Wasp and Lex are 11 days from completing upgrades. The Roi-Namur troops should be assembled by then. The Kwaj troops are further out, but I'm planning on steaming with just the Roi contingent in order to give the Kwaj troops more time to prep.

Elsewhere: No signs that I can detect of imminent enemy offensive operations. For months now John has been consistently reconning the exact same package of bases: Sian, Paoshan, Toyun, Akyab, Chittagong, Ramree, Geraldton, Ulak, Adak, Umnak and Cold Bay.

I've heard it said that southerners will sometimes use "y'all" when referring to a single person, but I've never heard it done. Ever. It's always used in the plural.

Growing up in Miami in the '60s and '70s, where a large part of the population was from New York and New Jersey, I heard "you guys" almost exclusively and used it without thinking about it. But I dropped it almost immediately upon arrival at the University of Georgia.

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

And I thought the plural of you was youse. [;)]

In American dialect there is a geographic distinction between "youse" and "youze." The former is more NYC/Brooklynese and the latter is Philly. It's really interesting to put a New Yorker next to a Phillyite and listen to the differences in the accents, them being so close in space.

In Pittsburgh and I believe parts of the Ohio Valley it's "yinz" or "yins."

This could all have been avoided if we'd stayed with thou/thee/thine in the singular (nominative/objective and thine is possessive), and ye in second person plural. We end up instead with "you" doing double duty as singular and plural, and a host of work-arounds.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've heard it said that southerners will sometimes use "y'all" when referring to a single person, but I've never heard it done. Ever. It's always used in the plural.

You need to get out more, or go to the northern south. Try Virginia. Singular y'alls thick as fleas. [:)]

I've also heard tortured constructions with "double alls" and a possessive. Often when the speaker is exercised, as in a bar fight or sporting event. Sometimes the same thing.

"We're gonna kick all y'all's asses!"

I'm tired.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

I was on the radio recently (managed to win a kitchen!) and I didn't realise how Northern I sound.

Not Manc, or scouse, but proper Northern!

First time I ever heard a recording of my voice, it took me a while to realise it was me. There was some Geordie reading the words, that can't be me.

The way i was taught (By a Louisiana native)
Y'all is singular
Both y'all for two people
All Y'all is plural.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You need to get out more, or go to the northern south. Try Virginia. Singular y'alls thick as fleas. [:)]

...

Well, nobody down here uses "y'all" in the singular. Down here I'd ask a friend, "Are you going to the ballgame?" I'd ask friends (whether two or 200), "Are y'all going to the ballgame?" And if I was really, really country, I'd say, "Are you uns going to the ballgame." (But, as I noted above, "you uns" is now rare and is only used, I think, by very rural and mostly uneducted folks.)

I don't drink sweet tea (ice tea), but I identify the "Real South" as the territory in which sweet tea is the norm. Going north, the furthest you'll find this is Nashville, Knoxville, and Roanoke (and some areas of southern Kentucky). Thus, to my way of thinking, Richmond and most of the larger cities in North Carolina are not "Real South."

A friend of mine from Chattanooga who moved to Charlottesville, Virginia, measured it by a different standard. Down in this section, every church holds Wednesday evening services (usually a "prayer" service and sometime dinner too). But when she moved to Virginia, she found that none of the churches had Wednesday night services. That's how she knew she was no longer "home."

Of course, none of this is of real significance to any of us. I've done enough traveling to know that I'd soon feel perfectly at home had circumstances settled me in Bath, New Hampshire, or Taunton, Massachusetts. People are mostly nice wherever you go. At least, small town people are.