Page 30 of 184
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:58 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Ohio Jones
Sorry, I'm sure this is available somewhere in the maps thread, but what are the dimensions on the full map sheets? I have a few printer contacts, I can see if I can get a couple of production estimates, along with cost breaks based on numbers printed.
I am looking at 6 map segments: 3 north and 3 south, with each north segment directly over a south segment. Each segment is the same size: 123 hexes wide by 100 high. The full map is 360 wide by 195 high so this allows for a full hex border at the top and bottom and 3 hexes of overlap for each north & south pair. There is a 3 hex overlap for the east-west connections, even if you wrap them around a cylinder. The top and bottom border allows for the necessary half hex of interlocking and a half hex of black edging.
The WIFFE printed maps are .6 inches in height, which measures the nested height, not the full height of a hex. They are 11/16 of an inch wide (no interlocking east-west).
I assume we want the hexes a comparable size to that of the printed version so the game can be played thereon.
Therefore, each segment is 5 feet high by 7 feet wide (60 inches by 84.56 inches).
We want the material to be able to withstand modest use yet be thin enough that magnetic counters can be used if the map is mounted on a metallic background (e.g., sheet metal on a wall). Lamination has been mentioned as one possibility, a mylar equivalent as another. Actually, my only serious concern is that the material not be textured since the level of detail in each hex is going to be just under 200 pixels per inch. Some of the textured material I have seen would mess up the image details.
RE: When?
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:05 am
by Ohio Jones
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I am looking at 6 map segments: 3 north and 3 south, with each north segment directly over a south segment. Each segment is the same size: 123 hexes wide by 100 high. The full map is 360 wide by 195 high so this allows for a full hex border at the top and bottom and 3 hexes of overlap for each north & south pair. There is a 3 hex overlap for the east-west connections, even if you wrap them around a cylinder. The top and bottom border allows for the necessary half hex of interlocking and a half hex of black edging.
The WIFFE printed maps are .6 inches in height, which measures the nested height, not the full height of a hex. They are 11/16 of an inch wide (no interlocking east-west).
I assume we want the hexes a comparable size to that of the printed version so the game can be played thereon.
Therefore, each segment is 5 feet high by 7 feet wide (60 inches by 84.56 inches).
We want the material to be able to withstand modest use yet be thin enough that magnetic counters can be used if the map is mounted on a metallic background (e.g., sheet metal on a wall). Lamination has been mentioned as one possibility, a mylar equivalent as another. Actually, my only serious concern is that the material not be textured since the level of detail in each hex is going to be just under 200 pixels per inch. Some of the textured material I have seen would mess up the image details.
Wow, those are big sheets. 5x7s run in a single pass won't be cheap, especially given the quality stock you're going to want. There are many textureless options which would suit, and if going with laminate I'd strongly suggest a matte finish to reduce glare. I'll talk to some folks here (Toronto) and see what they suggest.
Out of curiosity, does anyone have a space big enough to set up (and leave set up) a game that is 10' x 21'? I can just picture the WACs and WRNs now, pushing counters around with pool cues.
Of course, the more likely solution will be to magnetize and wall-mount the thing, but that's still a lot of space...
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:20 am
by panzers
I have a question about the manual. I am a big fan of paper manuals, But what about some of us that have the boxed copy wirth all the rules. Are we going to be required to pay for the cost of the manual when we can just look at the pdf files.
I have the complete 5th edition and I can always refer to my boxed game and when it is computer related, I can just go to the file. It sounds awfully expensive to ship such a game with all that weight on it.
Just curious. It's certainly not gonna stop me from buying the game, but I am quite certain, many of us have the copy of the game and will just be following the sequence of event's on our boxed copy
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:18 pm
by Norman42
ORIGINAL: panzers
I have the complete 5th edition and I can always refer to my boxed game and when it is computer related
MWiF is based off of WiF Final Edition, which has substantial changes from 5th Edition.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:57 pm
by YohanTM2
I think you will find an number of clarifications and just frankly the whole move from board to disk is going to require some relearning. The good news is Steve is doing a killer job sticking to WiF RaW as much as possible.
ORIGINAL: panzers
I have a question about the manual. I am a big fan of paper manuals, But what about some of us that have the boxed copy wirth all the rules. Are we going to be required to pay for the cost of the manual when we can just look at the pdf files.
I have the complete 5th edition and I can always refer to my boxed game and when it is computer related, I can just go to the file. It sounds awfully expensive to ship such a game with all that weight on it.
Just curious. It's certainly not gonna stop me from buying the game, but I am quite certain, many of us have the copy of the game and will just be following the sequence of event's on our boxed copy
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:08 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: panzers
I have a question about the manual. I am a big fan of paper manuals, But what about some of us that have the boxed copy wirth all the rules. Are we going to be required to pay for the cost of the manual when we can just look at the pdf files.
I have the complete 5th edition and I can always refer to my boxed game and when it is computer related, I can just go to the file. It sounds awfully expensive to ship such a game with all that weight on it.
Just curious. It's certainly not gonna stop me from buying the game, but I am quite certain, many of us have the copy of the game and will just be following the sequence of event's on our boxed copy
There is a thread about the manual somewhere in this forum.
In short:
1 - PDFs will be available with the download.
2 -The shipped boxed version will cost more (but not a lot more) and will include the Player's Manual printed in two volumes (5" by 7" stock).
3 - The Player's Manual Volume I will be the section on getting started and cover the player interface in some detail (I am thinking along the lines of 60-100 screen shots).
4 - Volume II will include details and appendices. Together with Volume I, the total page count will be in the range of 500 numbered pages (5" by 7").
5 - In addition to the Player's Manual there will be current PDFs from RAW (Rules as Written).
6 - A PDF that is already finished is of RAC (Rules as Coded). This 150 page (8.5" by 11") document is an edited version of RAW which includes a lot of clarifications and corrections from Harry Rowland of Australian Design Group (he will make them officially available to the general public sometime 'soon'). RAC also lists all the 'Deviations' that MWIF has from WIF FE.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:33 pm
by panzers
Is the FE the one with America sflame? because I never played the america aflame version. Someone mentioned earlier that after 5th edition, it started to get out of control with all the added extra bells and whistles. I, myself began ro see that when they released the FE, the one with America aflame, at least I think it's the one with America aflame. So now I'm worried I am nt going to just pick up from what I have previously known.
because I had heard that there were numerous changes in that edition(I saw rhe rules update manual. It looks from the naked eye, like a completely different game).
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: panzers
Is the FE the one with America sflame? because I never played the america aflame version. Someone mentioned earlier that after 5th edition, it started to get out of control with all the added extra bells and whistles. I, myself began ro see that when they released the FE, the one with America aflame, at least I think it's the one with America aflame. So now I'm worried I am nt going to just pick up from what I have previously known.
because I had heard that there were numerous changes in that edition(I saw rhe rules update manual. It looks from the naked eye, like a completely different game).
America in Flames is compatible with WiF FE, but WiF FE is not "the one with America sflame". You can have WiF FE without America in Flames, and you can have America in Flames without WiF FE.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:56 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: panzers
Is the FE the one with America sflame? because I never played the america aflame version. Someone mentioned earlier that after 5th edition, it started to get out of control with all the added extra bells and whistles. I, myself began ro see that when they released the FE, the one with America aflame, at least I think it's the one with America aflame. So now I'm worried I am nt going to just pick up from what I have previously known.
because I had heard that there were numerous changes in that edition(I saw rhe rules update manual. It looks from the naked eye, like a completely different game).
The decision to buy or not is always up to the purchaser.[:)]
The ADG add-ons pre-1939 (Days of Decision) and post-1945 (e.g., America in Flames) are not part of MWIF product 1. Nor is Leaders in Flames.
Most of the ADG add-ons are optional rules in MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
The only add-ons that are 'mandatory' (built in) are Planes in Flames and Ships in Flames. These add more units and have a slight change in the naval rules (e.g., convoys can be placed 1 at a time instead of in multiples of 5).
There were substanial changes from 5th edition to Final edition, but that occurred a long time ago when we much younger. I try not to think about those changes because it just confuses me.[&:] Keeping the current rule set straight in my mind is often beyond my memory capacity, and requires looking thing up. Old versions of the rules I treat, more or less, like rats carrying the bubonic plague.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:20 pm
by Edfactor
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Most of the ADG add-ons are optional rules in MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
Hmm i couldnt find it - but i would be interested in looking at it.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:47 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Edfactor
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Most of the ADG add-ons are optional rules in MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
Hmm i couldnt find it - but i would be interested in looking at it.
The thread is on page four of the list of threads in MWIF, near the bottom, called "optional rules".
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:26 am
by peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
The thread is on page four of the list of threads in MWIF, near the bottom, called "optional rules".
Which optional rule was eliminated?
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:16 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
The thread is on page four of the list of threads in MWIF, near the bottom, called "optional rules".
Which optional rule was eliminated?
Unrestricted Setup. It was something I inherited from CWIF, but was never a part of RAW.
There were many problems during beta testing where this optional rule conflicted with other standard RAW rules. How to resolve them became too complex. And in the final analysis, what this rule might add to the value of the game was questionable.
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:55 am
by Orm
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Unrestricted Setup. It was something I inherited from CWIF, but was never a part of RAW.
There were many problems during beta testing where this optional rule conflicted with other standard RAW rules. How to resolve them became too complex. And in the final analysis, what this rule might add to the value of the game was questionable.
Good riddance! [:)]
-Orm
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:13 pm
by peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
MWIF: 80 optional rules (I just eliminated one of them yesterday). There is a separate thread about the optional rules - with gruesome details if you are interested.[>:]
The thread is on page four of the list of threads in MWIF, near the bottom, called "optional rules".
Which optional rule was eliminated?
Unrestricted Setup. It was something I inherited from CWIF, but was never a part of RAW.
There were many problems during beta testing where this optional rule conflicted with other standard RAW rules. How to resolve them became too complex. And in the final analysis, what this rule might add to the value of the game was questionable.
Ahh so this means we have a ompening in the optional rules list [;)] [:D]
Well I like to promote mine! [:D]
Option 80 Addition – Unescorted bombers
All bombers which are unescorted by any fighter has its Air to Air rating halved rounded up when it shots back at the intercepting fighter. It does not affect the rating when the fighter shots at the bomber. To count as unescorted the bomber must have been unescorted all the way to the target.
Ex It CR-42 Falco(1939) 4-*-*-* intercepts the CW MK IV (Blenhem(1939) 3-1-2-1. When the Italian fighter attacks it rolls on the +1 table, but then the CW bomber attacks back it rolls on –2 table, not the –1 table.
Reason :I fell that many WIF player gambles to easy with the bombers sending them on missions where they are thinking like this "Hay! I don't need to build so many fighters now, I got at lease 30%+ chance to get through and my bomber is almost as likely to shoot down his fighter as he is to shoot down me. Besides if he does not intercept I get +1 one on my attack roll". Historically very few missions were taken without adequate fighter protection.
Option 80 Addition – Landbased carrier planes
A carrier plan which was not based on a CV or CVL at the start of the mission, has all it ratings reduced by one.
Ex a CW TBF-3(1946) 6-5-2-1 becomes a 5-4-1-*.
Reason: These units it's much smaller than all regular size. They get their relatively high values due to the mobility of the CV and surprising appearance of cv planes. Also it's so very doubt full to see all Japanese carries planes land based in China and see the navy striped of all planes.
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:26 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Option 80 Addition – Landbased carrier planes
A carrier plan which was not based on a CV or CVL at the start of the mission, has all it ratings reduced by one.
Ex a CW TBF-3(1946) 6-5-2-1 becomes a 5-4-1-*.
Reason: These units it's much smaller than all regular size. They get their relatively high values due to the mobility of the CV and surprising appearance of cv planes. Also it's so very doubt full to see all Japanese carries planes land based in China and see the navy striped of all planes.
Good idea, but not enough.
Their value should be a tenth of their original values.
Anyway, a simple rule in RAW already deals with CVP on land : They can do no air mission except rebase, and I prefer that.
Even with 1 less factor, the would still be a major nuisance on land. I used to play them this way before the rule was changed, and it was complete nonsense. Waves of land based CVP always covered the section 0 of all attacked sea areas, sometime acting as good fighters to protect ports, well far beyond their real world use (related to their scale).
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Option 80 Addition – Unescorted bombers
All bombers which are unescorted by any fighter has its Air to Air rating halved rounded up when it shots back at the intercepting fighter. It does not affect the rating when the fighter shots at the bomber. To count as unescorted the bomber must have been unescorted all the way to the target.
Ex It CR-42 Falco(1939) 4-*-*-* intercepts the CW MK IV (Blenhem(1939) 3-1-2-1. When the Italian fighter attacks it rolls on the +1 table, but then the CW bomber attacks back it rolls on –2 table, not the –1 table.
Reason :I fell that many WIF player gambles to easy with the bombers sending them on missions where they are thinking like this "Hay! I don't need to build so many fighters now, I got at lease 30%+ chance to get through and my bomber is almost as likely to shoot down his fighter as he is to shoot down me. Besides if he does not intercept I get +1 one on my attack roll". Historically very few missions were taken without adequate fighter protection.
Not bad.
But unescorted bombers already get more often bounced, and they are rarely a match for enemy fighters to fly alone.
RE: When?
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:51 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Which optional rule was eliminated?
Unrestricted Setup. It was something I inherited from CWIF, but was never a part of RAW.
There were many problems during beta testing where this optional rule conflicted with other standard RAW rules. How to resolve them became too complex. And in the final analysis, what this rule might add to the value of the game was questionable.
Ahh so this means we have a ompening in the optional rules list [;)] [:D]
Well I like to promote mine! [:D]
Option 80 Addition – Unescorted bombers
All bombers which are unescorted by any fighter has its Air to Air rating halved rounded up when it shots back at the intercepting fighter. It does not affect the rating when the fighter shots at the bomber. To count as unescorted the bomber must have been unescorted all the way to the target.
Ex It CR-42 Falco(1939) 4-*-*-* intercepts the CW MK IV (Blenhem(1939) 3-1-2-1. When the Italian fighter attacks it rolls on the +1 table, but then the CW bomber attacks back it rolls on –2 table, not the –1 table.
Reason :I fell that many WIF player gambles to easy with the bombers sending them on missions where they are thinking like this "Hay! I don't need to build so many fighters now, I got at lease 30%+ chance to get through and my bomber is almost as likely to shoot down his fighter as he is to shoot down me. Besides if he does not intercept I get +1 one on my attack roll". Historically very few missions were taken without adequate fighter protection.
Option 80 Addition – Landbased carrier planes
A carrier plan which was not based on a CV or CVL at the start of the mission, has all it ratings reduced by one.
Ex a CW TBF-3(1946) 6-5-2-1 becomes a 5-4-1-*.
Reason: These units it's much smaller than all regular size. They get their relatively high values due to the mobility of the CV and surprising appearance of cv planes. Also it's so very doubt full to see all Japanese carries planes land based in China and see the navy striped of all planes.
Sorry, but no.[:-]
I've stop reading proposals for additional features to MWIF product 1.
For instance, as of July 4th I even closed the possibility of rule changes from Harry Rowland.
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:04 am
by Shadowdale1
Hi Shannon
I have being playing WIF since 1991 and I would like to know when computer will be release.
The group I'm in have game going.
Wayne
From Australia
RE: When?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:05 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Shadowdale1
Hi Shannon
I have being playing WIF since 1991 and I would like to know when computer will be release.
The group I'm in have game going.
Wayne
From Australia
Welcome to the forum.[:)]
I post a report here the first of every month. You can read all the old ones if you want to - going back to August of 2005.