Matrix Games Forums

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.[:-]

ORIGINAL: old man of the sea

What I do know is marketing to the US Army/Marine Corps/ USAF/US NAVY/law enforcement/corrections at federal/state/local/municipal level. It is not who you know, it is what you have. Knowing who the right people are helps, but having what they need is much more important. It is much harder than making games. Much much harder.

Check it out http://vice.d-a-s.com

E

I hear ya, dude.

Add to your list: What you said during a casual conversation, you might be able to do if certain programming ideas work out , only to do have them come back to you six months later demanding to know why it is not a feature. And it was never even in SOW!

My signature is not just an idle quote.

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.[:-]

Hey Dog!

I'm gonna send Sissy a link to this post! That stoggie old soc is gonna love it! I bet he sides with Shaun! Hahahaha! He Wack!

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.[:-]

Doggie

Shaun doesn't have a soul...... so its no problem [:D]

I am highly suspicious about any game that takes aeons to find a publisher outside it's home country (and is pretty much in development for aeons itself), like TOW.

The game is already released in Russian market and just being tweaked at Battlefront. I watched some movies of actual gameplay, the journalist (German) changed the tone of his voice from exciment lol
The Russians are getting big time in the game market, they have learned a lot. Heroes 5, Rig'n'Roll, and this game, all quality titles. Before when somebody mentioned Russian made game I knew that something in the game will be screwed up. Heroes 5 for example made by Nival is fantastic game, I can object only some minor things like when you click with a right mouse button you don't get info on terrain cost or when you initally choose heroes you cannot see their stats and specility clicking on right mouse button which would be cool not to memorize abbilities of certain heroes. And that's it. Maybe there is more. But they made a fantastic 3D engine, this is first Heroes game that even nVidia recognized and bundled with GF7900GS graphic cards. Interface is also good and after a while 3D doesn't make much problems only minor (camera etc...).
So Russians are coming big time into game dev. Heroes 5 in fact can be compared with Medieval 2: Total War as far as production value goes and state of the finished game.

Also must mention my friends at Akella (and say hello to Dmitry Arkhipov). They are also great developers and I am having a high hopes for their Disciples 3 and outsourced Jagged Alliance 3
http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/jagged_alliance_3


Mario

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity

They should *develop* games, period. Not for the good of humanity, but for the hard cash. The key word here is *develop*, though, not copy paste someone else's 8 year old code, and call that "development".

They say they know how to develop their own ideas and their own code - I say nice, we'll see, but so far we've seen none of that.

Hey Dog!

I'm gonna send Sissy a link to this post! That stoggie old soc is gonna love it! I bet he sides with Shaun! Hahahaha! He Wack!

 
Nah, Sissy will disagree with both of us and explain why we are both wrong due to both Liberals and Neo-Cons etc being part of the exisiting regime and post a link to proof of us really being on the same side [:-] Then post a huge post explaining the conspiracy behind the Wests exploitation of everone else in the world etc etc etc .............[>:]
 

Shaun doesn't have a soul...... so its no problem

 
LOL, I did, just went over to the Dark side Simple- The bad guys ALWAYS have the best bloody uniforms, look at the Germans and the Brits? Romans and Everyone else? The Empire and Rebels? Caveat to that: Not sure what happened to the USSR in that
 
Sulla

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Shaun Wallace, your filthy capitalist.

You and the rest of your filthy lucre gathering opportunists should develop games for the good of humanity, just like Captain Picard and Counselor Troi.

What good is financial gain at the cost of your soul? You have the ability within your grasp to selflessly give of yourselves to please others, the actual embodiment of "from those with ability to those in need".

I'm really dissapointed in you.[:-]

A lame attempt to be cynical...

I bet that you don't know how many games have sank selling 3000 copies. And team of 20 people worked on that game. Now take just salaries into account. So I should have rather called them "Good Samaritians" and their Japanese investors hehe.

The risk in the game called CoI I think it is not that big. Simtek
is not that big studio (also don't know but just guess).

Is graphic dept. there maybe 20 people?

So nobody is arguing that profit is bad, quite contrary. But people will vote with their dollar, me included.

Nowadays game development is quite expensive, imagine how much number of copies even big guys must sell to just break even. So nothing is guaranteed. Imagine cost to produce mainstream game 5000000 $. Yes, 5 million. Now divide this with number of copies you must sell.
So actually wargaming development is maybe not so nerve racking like maybe some other.



Mario

Cost of purchase IS a factor.. especially on a re release.

I Can afford $40 but the question is WILL I.

I have had cc 1 2 3 + 4 in the past. What will I get now. How many of the scenarios will I go .. OH yeah , I remember how to do this one...?

Even If I dont remember , or they are all new engagements I HAVE ALREADY PLAYED THE GAME> PLAYED IT A LOT>

Its not a new experience.

As for you shouldn't compare  a TOTAL WAR type game to a pure wargame , you miss the point MONKEYS BRAIN is making.
YOU are competing in a marketplace. An individual has a finite supply of cash to spend on a whole basketfull of products.

i have this month alone to consider Battlestaion Midway, UFO afterlight, defending the Reich , First eagles , Rome total war { now discounted}. { Paraworld , now seriously discounted} Silent Hunter 4 , Space empires 5.

 Then I have to decide on FOF , GGWAW 2 ,{already heve 1 } TOAW 3 { already had it before}

Or save for guns of august , WIf , CAW etc

Or maybe i'll just buy Madden 07 or something light for the evening like ZOMBIE MALL KILLERS RETURN.

to buy them all costs...$ xx hundreds...

SO A CHOICE MUST BE MADE.

As someone at the  start of this thread said reduce the price and sell more , and was killed statisically with fractions of a sale per person vs development costs  etc.

Missing the point again.

i have the funds, i have played board wargames since the 80's and computer wargames since Harpoon one on 5.25 inch floppys, and I could buy this game.

 But i won't .. for all of the above reasons , and the fact that I have only a limited amount of time to play now.

If it was  'buy Cross of Iron + get Bombing the Reich 1/2 price I might be more tempted'

As it is NWS have supremacy at sea looming and the Birth of America ACW game is very tempting for next month..

However

The marketplace is calling TODAY

Now , where's my credit card , i feel an urge to battle the forces of Pompey at Pharsalus...

I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions like this. People like to complain about prices, apparently, but sometimes you get the feeling that people think someone is forcibly taking their money away. It's a choice and we're comfortable with some people deciding that $39.99 is too much. However, let's be honest at the same time.

$39.99 is not a "high" price for wargames, nor is it too high a price for an improved re-release of a classic wargame that was out of print and selling for $100+ on E-Bay just a short while ago. Anyone who reads through the developers notes on the changes (pinned to the top of this forum) should understand that a lot of new development time went into this title and although we always said it was a re-release, it is definitely improved and has new content. Despite being up front about this being a re-release, some folks seem to have gotten confused and are judging it as if we called it CC6. We did not and never marketed it as such. Could we have priced it lower? Yes, but considerations for future development did play a role. We felt that the difference between say $29.99 and $39.99 was the future for CC6 and beyond.

The entire purpose of this release was to bring the community a "deluxe" re-release of CC that was friendly with the newer OSes, had great mods and a multiplayer campaign system and the various improvements that had been made for the military since it was last on the market. Those are not small or minor changes - for a "re-release", that's a lot of extra value and that's the context within which the price was chosen. We previewed this release to several veteran CC gamers before release and all felt it was worth the price once they were familiar with the features.

A lot of gamers would have been willing to pay $40 on E-Bay for another copy of CC if they had lost theirs. If someone had put a copy of CC on E-Bay that had all these improvements, what would it have sold for, I wonder?

I regret each lost sale, but since it's a matter of free choice and most people are talking about a difference of $10 (i.e. "$30 would be fine, but $40? WAY too much!"), I just don't understand the degree of some of the upset over this. It's a fair price - we're not asking for $100 or something like that - and everyone should educate themselves on what's in the package and decide if it's worth their money. That's how the market works, that's how we expect it to work - you don't have to buy the game if you don't feel it's worth it to you, but lots of folks do think it's worthwhile and the more that do, frankly the better CC6 will be.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

.....we always said it was a re-release

Yes, no doubt. I don't see why Oleg acts as if customers would be tricked into buying an alleged "new game" which is in fact a re-release, and where really everyone knew that it would be a re-release.

I for one am getting excited when thinking about a possible release of a new (real) sequel in this series. Are there any rough schedules/estimates on when we can expect to see some previews, screenshot, dev diaries or anything like that?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

$39.99 is not a "high" price for wargames, nor is it too high a price for an improved re-release of a classic wargame that was out of print and selling for $100+ on E-Bay just a short while ago.

To tell you the truth, I was expecting a higher price tag, like $49.99. I think you are giving them a break.

E

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions like this.

Geez, where, other than the internet? I don't see folks standing outside of grocery stores or Best Buy with signs protesting the price of groceries or music CDs.

Forums like this one can be a great means of disseminating information about a product like CoI. And I believe that the public benefits from open criticism of games. Given that game reviews are so tainted by cronyism and conflicts of interest, how else can a would-be game buyer make an informed decision about what to buy and what to beget?

It's also true, however, that the proper and worthwhile purpose of these groups can be subverted, either by a developer/publisher and their surrogates attempting to suppress "bad-news" about a buggy, unstable POS, or by a good-old-fashioned troll who's just trying to pound the readership senseless with one specious assertion after another.

And the motives behind the pathology that can grip a thread like this one are fairly transparent. Some folks who sell games are just unethical, so much so that that they're willing to foist off junk on the public. Likewise, trolls troll, "Can I rattle their cage just one more time, get 'em to rear-up at me again?" They have nothing meaningful to add to the discussion. They just get off on being disruptive.

What's going on with this whole "price" thang? Well, ladies and gentlemen...I think...that 's for you all to decide, but IMO, it seems pretty obvious.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, but considerations for future development did play a role. We felt that the difference between say $29.99 and $39.99 was the future for CC6 and beyond.

One reason I was quite happy to pay it. And like Eric, I was expecting $49.99 (and would have paid that as well).

But, playing Devil's Advocate a little;

Despite being up front about this being a re-release, some folks seem to have gotten confused and are judging it as if we called it CC6. We did not and never marketed it as such.

No, but you didn't call it 'Close Combat 3: The Russian Front', either. Or even 'Close Combat 3: The Russian Front - Gold Edition' or similar. While you were most certainly 'up front' as to what is was, at least some minimal research on the part of the punter was necessary to discover same. I think such 'confusion' can be forgiven to some extent.

I just don't get the posts that slam the price...I mean what's your point?...don't buy it then and move on, no one is forcing you to do anything. You just seem to want to complain for the sake of it. I think what the problem is that  you really want to buy it but are to cheap to fork up the extra $10 or $15 that's your choice and not anyone else's fault. If the other games are so great why arn't out playing them and instead here bitching about the price?  No one owes you discounts for being cheap or deciding you want to buy other games instead. The price is reasonable but some of you are not, plain and simple.

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
Yes, no doubt. I don't see why Oleg acts as if customers would be tricked into buying an alleged "new game" which is in fact a re-release, and where really everyone knew that it would be a re-release.

There is obviously some misunderstanding here. I did my best to avoid discussing price altogether - personally I am happier with 70$ WITP, and would gladly pay 200$ for it, than I was with some 15$ games. Then again I've been pleasantly surprised with some 19$ games and even 9,99$ mini masterpieces like Defcon. There are no clear rules, but if I love the game I'd gladly pay a massive price, monthy subscription, whatever, you name it. When a product stinks (as CoI does IMO) I will passionately speak my mind, *regardless* of the price. In fact if you owned CC3 then a 2$ for CoI is probably too much, but I am happy leaving price-demand issues to good ole capitalist market economy [:D]

My main problem with CC is that certain group of people got hold of code for this cult game(s) and many months after they got the code they still haven't done anything visible with what they got. We are still waiting for something substantial to happen, and there is nothing on the horizon (except some empty promises). Apparently, we will have to wait many months perhaps even years before we really see something NEW going on here, and I find that very disappointing.

Whats the point?

Well feedback for one.

You bought it , you're happy , good for you.

I didn't but i MIGHT , and it seems some others would also.

I am not demanding a price cut or even a detailed explanation of unit costs, marketing costs , developer costs and future development plans.

I, for one, am just getting a message across. I PROBABLY won't pay $40 for a game I have already played. Not this one and NOT SEVERAL other tempting titles in the MATRIX list of up and comming.

I definately will pay $40+ for WIF , LOCK n LOAD , Guns of August.

I have paid $40 { or whatever it was }for Crown of glory and titans of steel and although they probably only got about 10 hours play combined I don't feel cheated.
{ well maybe on titans }

There was ample opportunity to check the games out in Forums like these.

So the point is .....

Maybe in the Future there is some scope for putting Re-relases out at a different price band or double package or money off the NEXT in the series,or many of the multitude of other marketing options then fine it would be of intrest to me.

If on the other hand Matrix is happy , and everyone who buys it is happy and there are plenty of dollars rolling in then just ignore me ,, but at least Matrix knows the possibilities even if doesn't agree.

With plenty of re releases out and in the bag , and i see this 'is it value for money post ' running on 2 threads here on this game alone it should at least cause some to have pause for thought.[:'(]

ORIGINAL: LitFuel

I just don't get the posts that slam the price...I mean what's your point?...don't buy it then and move on, no one is forcing you to do anything. You just seem to want to complain for the sake of it. I think what the problem is that you really want to buy it but are to cheap to fork up the extra $10 or $15 that's your choice and not anyone else's fault. If the other games are so great why arn't out playing them and instead here bitching about the price? No one owes you discounts for being cheap or deciding you want to buy other games instead. The price is reasonable but some of you are not, plain and simple.

Well, you are not right. Gentlemen called eez have put it quite right and I applaude to such posts.

But again in one thing you are right - discussion at this point is pointless so I will stop it right here. Fanboyism is good to a certain degree until it starts to slam posters for anything they say (well how dare they!). I've seen this on Paradox Forum where I complained about the lack of all package sprites in HoI 2.
Few years fast forward those creeps at Paradox still didn't released all sprites but some fans have made some but still there is not full package of sprites (I guss it takes much work).
But full division of angry fans jumped on me how I dare to criticize Paradox Interactive and main argument of them was "I play with counters". Now when fans made some sprites same people applaude them. /they made it for free, thing that paradox should made and not expect fans to made.

Nobody is "bitching" about 10$ and you didn't take the full point here. It's about principle and nobody is complaining just for the sake of complaining. If you want to shut up all dissent or rightfully complaints go ahead, be my guest, but that is really last think I would do.

And you are also right in one more thing, I am off to play fantastic MTW 2. And what is trolling, telling your own opinion on some things that is trolling? lol
For what is worth I at least have something to say. As I don't like discussion that are moving into circles and especially when strong arguments are just jumped over or ignored I say cheers and move on.

So, cheers.


Mario

My main problem with CC is that certain group of people got hold of code for this cult game(s) and many months after they got the code they still haven't done anything visible with what they got.

Pardon, but if they did "anything visable" with it, it wouldn't be Close Combat, would it?

The game is advertised as Close Combat, Cross of Iron. Sounds simple enough to me. Close Combat aint Grand Theft Auto. It appeals to a limited market. If Matrix could count on selling ten million copies then the cost per unit would come down substantially. I'm guessing they might sell a few thousand units; not a few million. And all the people who worked on it got to get paid. Some more than others. David Heath is greedy corporate mogul, so he gets more. Shaun might get a green card if he behaves himself. He wants more, he needs to go stand out in front of Home Depot with the rest of the foriegners. Once he learns to speak proper English, he'll have more job opportunities.

There's not even a guarantee they'll break even. Ask Eric Young about the project he sank a couple of years into which tanked. Can't even remember the name of it. People have been asking for a new Close Combat game for years. Mister Heath gives it to you, and all you do is bitch. I'd like to see Matrix Games on the discount shelf at Best Buy, but I understand how the Matrix staff don't want to be out in Times Square selling rubbers so they can afford to ship thousands of DVDs all over the country.

One thing that might be worthwhile is re-releasing all the previous Close Combat titles. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of seeing new games that require more and more computer power. I think people are getting tired of having to upgrade their computer every time a new game comes out. I really don't care that much about stunning graphics; I want the game to be interesting and run smoothly without me having to get new graphics cards and memory chips just so I can see every drop of gore in high definition.

And when are you clowns going to offer me a job writing stuff for you? I am the author of the Idiot's Guide to Installing GJS, or did you forget? Harummff!

Nicely said, Doggie.

I agree with others who have said this so succinctly.... your choice, don't like the price don't buy it.