Page 4 of 6
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:59 pm
by castor troy
Oh well. There are those who think the land combat routine works and others (probably more, but that´s just my oppinion) that think the land combat is broken. [8|]
All I hope is that the land combat isn´t SO GOOD that it´s implemented in any other Matrix game that´s coming and that´s perhaps focussing more on land warfare. Because then this game will have serious problems and I won´t spend $70 for sure.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:02 pm
by DuckofTindalos
And that's your prerogative... Just like it's my prerogative to spend my money on one if I so choose...
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:06 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Terminus
And that's your prerogative... Just like it's my prerogative to spend my money on one if I so choose...
wouldn´t have a problem with that! Perhaps this will keep Matrix going and perhaps there comes the time when I have the chance to buy another one... Hope it won´t be an Allied vs Nazi Germany game though because I don´t want to hear about Germans holding out in Stalingrad, .... until 48 (because they get a couple of tons of auto supply out of bones, stones and snow).
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:10 pm
by RUPD3658
ORIGINAL: veji1
RUPD, what is the difference between now and late 42 or early 43 that allows you to be optimistic ?
I made periodic probing attacks using only 1 Mongolian Cav unit over the last year. After the start of 44 when I started round the clock bombing with over 1000 AC inspite of bad weather, I saw a dramatic drop in defender AV. It went fron 20K to 11K, then held around 2K. Seeing this I felt that I now had a chance and made the decision to launch the attack.
The fact that the defender's adjusted AV is now lower than the base AV in spite of the urban hex and forts must be due to the disruption caused by the bombings.
If this works I will write a long paper on how to take Chungking for VSWG's must read threads.
Aside from Sneer (I got the idea to shock attack from him) , has anyone else taken Chungking in a PBEM?
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:28 pm
by qgaliana
ORIGINAL: RUPD3658
ORIGINAL: veji1
RUPD, what is the difference between now and late 42 or early 43 that allows you to be optimistic ?
I made periodic probing attacks using only 1 Mongolian Cav unit over the last year. After the start of 44 when I started round the clock bombing with over 1000 AC inspite of bad weather, I saw a dramatic drop in defender AV. It went fron 20K to 11K, then held around 2K. Seeing this I felt that I now had a chance and made the decision to launch the attack.
The fact that the defender's adjusted AV is now lower than the base AV in spite of the urban hex and forts must be due to the disruption caused by the bombings.
If this works I will write a long paper on how to take Chungking for VSWG's must read threads.
Aside from Sneer (I got the idea to shock attack from him) , has anyone else taken Chungking in a PBEM?
Actually I should withdraw my earlier reservations - in your case shock attack makes sense since you need the odds to kill forts - good luck.[:)]
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:05 pm
by veji1
Thanks RUPD, this is a very insightfull post.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:51 pm
by String
Yep I have, took it by late 1942 iirc, in my game vs Andy Mac.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:09 pm
by RUPD3658
This is what would have happened with a deliberate assault instead of a shock attack:
Day 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 1082816 troops, 11626 guns, 1776 vehicles, Assault Value = 21139
Defending force 263235 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9060
Japanese max assault: 20485 - adjusted assault: 4383
Allied max defense: 7344 - adjusted defense: 1765
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 9)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 8
Japanese ground losses:
94806 casualties reported
Guns lost 2728
Vehicles lost 86
Allied ground losses:
5115 casualties reported
Day 2:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 945301 troops, 7735 guns, 1632 vehicles, Assault Value = 14739
Defending force 256494 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8696
Japanese max assault: 5318 - adjusted assault: 961
Allied max defense: 6828 - adjusted defense: 1569
Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)
Japanese ground losses:
31008 casualties reported
Guns lost 910
Vehicles lost 80
Allied ground losses:
5740 casualties reported
End result would have been that I would have lost about 100 less VP worth of troops and had far less disrupted. On the flip side I would be facing lvl 8 forts. Either way this is going to be long and bloody.
What I can't figure out is why my 3000+ engineers have not lowered any fort levels.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:40 pm
by Dino
Maybe splitting your force in two and conducting alternate assaults like treespider suggested could be the key.
I regularly bring the forts down at 0:1 odds (with rested troops). In fact, 0:1 odds could be favorable in this situation since i THINK that would prohibit the second day attack.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:25 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: RUPD3658
This is what would have happened with a deliberate assault instead of a shock attack:
Day 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 1082816 troops, 11626 guns, 1776 vehicles, Assault Value = 21139
Defending force 263235 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9060
Japanese max assault: 20485 - adjusted assault: 4383
Allied max defense: 7344 - adjusted defense: 1765
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 9)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 8
Japanese ground losses:
94806 casualties reported
Guns lost 2728
Vehicles lost 86
Allied ground losses:
5115 casualties reported
Day 2:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 945301 troops, 7735 guns, 1632 vehicles, Assault Value = 14739
Defending force 256494 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8696
Japanese max assault: 5318 - adjusted assault: 961
Allied max defense: 6828 - adjusted defense: 1569
Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)
Japanese ground losses:
31008 casualties reported
Guns lost 910
Vehicles lost 80
Allied ground losses:
5740 casualties reported
End result would have been that I would have lost about 100 less VP worth of troops and had far less disrupted. On the flip side I would be facing lvl 8 forts. Either way this is going to be long and bloody.
What I can't figure out is why my 3000+ engineers have not lowered any fort levels.
lol, now this proves that your decision was not just wise - it seems to be excellent! [X(][8|]
You took "only" 60.000 "casualties" more with your shock attack but reduced the fort to 6!!! Try to lower the fort to 6 with only deliberate attacks and you surely will have far more (twice perhaps) casualties than with your one time shock attack.v[:D]
So someone say again you made a fault in shock attacking the urban hex... bloody but deliberate attack a couple of times would be BLOODIER... [8|]
Now why that? Can´t be the combat routine.... [:D]
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:49 pm
by RUPD3658
Now, do I shock again when my troops have recovered or deliberate from here on out?
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:49 pm
by Speedysteve
Yes. I've taken Chungking against Dadman in 9/42.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:57 pm
by pauk
Gamey Fanboi![:'(][;)]
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:00 pm
by Speedysteve
No HR at game start for this = not gamey[:'(]
You're just jelous. Dumbass
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:00 pm
by veji1
you can probably deliberate from now on..
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 pm
by pauk
ORIGINAL: Speedy
No HR at game start for this = not gamey[:'(]
You're just jelous. Dumbass
No i'm not jelous - i'm grateful.. just ask Andy![;)]
Are you sure that you didn't play with Paint to create this screen? I'm refusing to belive that you, world famous crappy player were able to capture Chungking against such good player[:'(]
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:23 pm
by treespider
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: RUPD3658
This is what would have happened with a deliberate assault instead of a shock attack:
Day 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 1082816 troops, 11626 guns, 1776 vehicles, Assault Value = 21139
Defending force 263235 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9060
Japanese max assault: 20485 - adjusted assault: 4383
Allied max defense: 7344 - adjusted defense: 1765
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 9)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 8
Japanese ground losses:
94806 casualties reported
Guns lost 2728
Vehicles lost 86
Allied ground losses:
5115 casualties reported
Day 2:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 945301 troops, 7735 guns, 1632 vehicles, Assault Value = 14739
Defending force 256494 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8696
Japanese max assault: 5318 - adjusted assault: 961
Allied max defense: 6828 - adjusted defense: 1569
Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)
Japanese ground losses:
31008 casualties reported
Guns lost 910
Vehicles lost 80
Allied ground losses:
5740 casualties reported
End result would have been that I would have lost about 100 less VP worth of troops and had far less disrupted. On the flip side I would be facing lvl 8 forts. Either way this is going to be long and bloody.
What I can't figure out is why my 3000+ engineers have not lowered any fort levels.
lol, now this proves that your decision was not just wise - it seems to be excellent! [X(][8|]
You took "only" 60.000 "casualties" more with your shock attack but reduced the fort to 6!!! Try to lower the fort to 6 with only deliberate attacks and you surely will have far more (twice perhaps) casualties than with your one time shock attack.v[:D]
So someone say again you made a fault in shock attacking the urban hex... bloody but deliberate attack a couple of times would be BLOODIER... [8|]
Now why that? Can´t be the combat routine.... [:D]
But he also inflicted many more casualties on the Chinese over the two days using the Deliberate attack -
Chinese casualties
Day 1 -
Shock - 4071
Deliberate - 5115
Day 2
Shock - 3901
Deliberate - 5740
And he will recover quicker to be able to attack sooner...
Also note the Day 2 Max Defense was significantly lower using the Deliberate Attack
Shock attack - 6942
Deliberate Attack - 6828
In spite of the fact the Fort was only reduced one level...
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:41 pm
by Speedysteve
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: Speedy
No HR at game start for this = not gamey[:'(]
You're just jelous. Dumbass
No i'm not jelous - i'm grateful.. just ask Andy![;)]
Are you sure that you didn't play with Paint to create this screen? I'm refusing to belive that you, world famous crappy player were able to capture Chungking against such good player[:'(]
Ask Dadman you dumbass[:'(]
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:23 pm
by castor troy
the clue is not to wait until Chungking is the last base where everything is stacked then. Cutting off the most of China and try to take Chungking early would be the best way. I say would because there´s always an opponent who tries exactly not to let this happen.
RE: Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:39 pm
by pauk
ORIGINAL: Speedy
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: Speedy
No HR at game start for this = not gamey[:'(]
You're just jelous. Dumbass
No i'm not jelous - i'm grateful.. just ask Andy![;)]
Are you sure that you didn't play with Paint to create this screen? I'm refusing to belive that you, world famous crappy player were able to capture Chungking against such good player[:'(]
Ask Dadman you dumbass[:'(]
Stop spaming this thread... and you surely cheated, i'm sure, Jamie![:'(]