ORIGINAL: el cid again
I think you have a point never before considered - by anyone - stock - CHS - RHS - me. And this new argument also supports classifying all P--38 as fighters. You will have better air combat results if we do that - with the same numbers - it is how code works. Lets try it.
I do not agree P-38 maneuverability is misrepresented - and if it is we will modify it. I will give a boost for an exception. But our scheme shows superb maneiverability when the powered flaps were introduced. We modifiied the rating system until it showed up - and the ratio
16 / 17 / 23 shows it well.
What we cannot honestly ignore is that there is more than one aspect of maneuverability - which is misnamed - in WITP - and we should not give the plane what it does not have - which is equal maneuverability in all senses with the single engie types - just as we cannot give them the durability of a P-38. Otherwise we should just have "fighters" and make em all equal - sort of like RISK has "armies"
I may not have anything to do with the price of rice in China or maneuverability but here is a case for it's fighter ability durability and maneuverabilty or lack there of:
Major Thomas Buchanan McGuire Jr. (August 1, 1920–January 7, 1945) was the second highest scoring American ace during World War II, whose memory was preserved by the naming of McGuire Air Force Base in Burlington County, New Jersey.
Contents [hide]
1 Biography
1.1 First combat
1.2 Career
1.3 His last mission
2 Honors
3 See also
4 External links
[edit] Biography
Aviation Cadet Thomas B. McGuire.McGuire was born in Ridgewood, New Jersey, on August 1, 1920. He and his mother moved to Sebring, Florida in the late 1920s and McGuire graduated from Sebring High School in 1938. He enrolled at Georgia Tech and joined Beta Theta Pi but left after his third year to join the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1941, reporting to a contract flying school in Corsicana, Texas, as an aviation cadet. Later, he got his wings after finishing his flight training at Randolph Field, Texas.
[edit] First combat
During World War II, his first combat assignment was flying patrols over the Aleutian Islands and Alaska flying the P-39 Airacobra while assigned to the 54th Fighter Group. While scoring no aerial victories in the Aleutians, McGuire was able to hone his natural and instinctive gifts as a pilot. Returning to the United States in December 1942, he married Marilynn Giesler, a student at Incarnate Word College in San Antonio, Texas. In February 1943 he reported to Orange County Airport, California for transition training in the P-38 Lightning. In March 1943, he was sent to the South Pacific as a P-38 Lightning pilot with the 49th Fighter Group, Fifth Air Force.
Five months later, the 5th Air Force decided to create an entire group, the 475th Fighter Group, of P-38 fighters, at the behest of its commander, the legendary Lt Gen George Kenney. Because he was a natural leader and experienced pilot, McGuire was among those chosen to form the new group. He was assigned to the 431st Fighter Squadron. On August 18, 1943, McGuire was part of a group flying top cover for bombers striking at Wewak, New Guinea. Nearing their target, the fighters were attacked by Japanese aircraft. During the battle, McGuire shot down two Ki-43 "Oscars" and one Ki-61 "Tony." On the following day, near the same location, he downed two more Oscars. This established him as an air ace in two days, after undergoing a frustrating year of apprenticeship with no opportunities to engage the enemy.
McGuire's career nearly came to an end on 17 October 1943 when he scrambled from Dubodura, New Guinea to intercept approaching Japanese bombers being escorted by Zero fighters over Oro Bay, New Guinea. During the ensuing dogfight McGuire observed at least seven Japanese Zero fighters attacking a lone P-38 that was trailing smoke. Without hesitation McGuire dove into the seven enemy fighters and quickly shot down three. Unfortunately the remaining four Zeros were able to attack McGuire and severely damage his aircraft. With his controls shot out McGuire decided to bail out but as he exited the aircraft he found his parachute harness had snagged on something in the cockpit. From 12,000 ft to 5,000 ft McGuire struggled to free himself from the stricken fighter. Finally he was able to free himself and deploy his parachute only 1,000 ft from certain death. Fortunately he landed safely in the water and was rescued by a PT boat. He suffered a 7.7 mm bullet wound to his wrist and numerous other injuries including some broken ribs. He spent six weeks in the hospital before he returned to his unit. For his actions on this day he was awarded a Silver Star and a Purple Heart.
[edit] Career
Maj. Thomas B. McGuire Jr. with Richard I. Bong taken Nov. 15, 1944 in the Philippines.McGuire's skill at maneuvering the large twin-engined P-38 was legendary, and he eventually became one of the top scoring airmen in Air Force history. Had it not been for periodic illnesses and heavy administrative duties as Commander, 431st Fighter Squadron, McGuire would surely have become the United States’ leading ace. Charles Lindbergh bunked with him and flew as his wingman on a few highly unusual if unauthorized missions. Visitors recalled McGuire ordering Lindbergh around, telling him to run errands as though he were a servant. Lindbergh was sent home after a kill in the P-38 because the Army did not want to risk losing the famous pilot in a war he was not even supposed to be in[citation needed]. Gen. Douglas MacArthur, on the other hand, was supportive of Lindbergh's efforts and impressed with his innovations[1].McGuire even wrote a highly prized book on combat tactics for the entire 5th Air Force. On December 25-26 1944, McGuire reached the zenith of his career, downing at least seven Japanese fighter aircraft over two days over Luzon, Philippines. He was two victories away from Maj. Richard I. Bong, the USAAF’s all-time aerial victory leader. However, after cheating death many times on his way to 38 aerial victories, McGuire’s tremendous achievements soon came to a close.
[edit] His last mission
On January 7, 1945, McGuire was leading a group of four P-38s (he leading the flight, others being Major Jack Rittmayer (four victories), Captain Edwin Weaver (two victories) and Lieutenant Douglas Thropp (one victory), during a fighter sweep over northern Negros Island in the central Philippines. Their aim was to gain victories: McGuire desperately wanted to pass Major Richard Bong's score of 40 kills. After descending through cloud cover, McGuire’s flight orbited a Japanese airfield at Fabrica and then proceeded to a second Japanese airstrip at Manapla (also refered to as Carolina). As they approached Manapla they were confronted by a lone Ki-43 Hayabusa (“Oscar”), which immediately engaged McGuire's flight.
Flying in the number-three position, Lt. Doug Thropp observed the lone bogie trying to attack him in a head-on pass. Lt. Thropp instinctively broke hard left in an attempt to thwart the bogie's attack. The bogie turned with Thropp and fell into a trail position behind him while firing on him. Major Rittmayer, flying as Thropp's wingman, turned sharply towards the bogie and began firing on him. Meanwhile Major McGuire saw that the bogie was being engaged by Rittmayer and turned away from the dogfight to face an imminent threat to the flight from the opposite direction. Unfortunately for Major McGuire and his flight, the pilot of the lone Japanese aircraft, Warrant Officer Akira Sugimoto, was an instructor pilot with thousands of hours in that type of aircraft, broke away from Thropp and Rittmayer and reversed his turn to find McGuire and his wingman Ed Weaver directly in front of him. Sugimoto was easily able to catch up to McGuire and Weaver and attack them from behind.
As Sugimoto approached Weaver from behind, Weaver radioed that the bogie was now attacking him and cut to the inside of the turn to give Sugimoto a more difficult shot. McGuire, seeing that his wingman was being threatened, eased up on his turn rate in an effort to draw the bogie off of his wingman and onto himself. Sugimoto took the bait and switched his attack to McGuire. As Sugimoto approached from behind, Major McGuire attempted to thwart Sugimoto's attack by rapidly increasing his turn rate. Regretably this extremely dangerous maneuver, performed at only 300 feet above the ground, caused Major McGuire to stall his P-38, which then snap-rolled to an inverted position and then pitched down and crashed into the ground. He was killed on impact. At the start of the dogfight, McGuire had radioed everyone to keep their auxiliary fuel tanks, as they would be needed to reach their main objective later in the sweep. Many of McGuire's fellow P-38 pilots believe that this order, which was contrary to standard operating procedures, was the direct cause of McGuire's death.
After McGuire's crash Lt. Thropp caught up to Sugimoto and fired on him causing enough damage to his aircraft that he had to make a forced landing a few miles away from where McGuire crashed.
Less than a minute later, another Japanese aircraft, a Ki-84 Hayate (“Frank”) piloted by Technical Sergeant Mizunori Fukuda, appeared on the scene from the nearby airstrip at Manapla and attacked Major Jack Rittmayer in a head-on pass. Rittmayer's P-38 disintegrated from cannon shots and pitched down crashing into a river. Rittmayer was killed on impact. Captain Weaver observed Fukuda's attack on Rittmayer and fired at Fukuda severely damaging his aircraft. Fukuda later crash landed at Manapla where his Ki-84 was destroyed. Thropp's P-38 was slightly damaged in the action and trailed smoke from one engine. Eventually Weaver and Thropp returned to Dulag, Leyte.
McGuire's crash was witnessed by Filipinos, who immediately rushed to the scene and secured his remains so that they would not fall into the hands of the Japanese. In 1947, his remains were recovered by the US Army and returned to the United States. He was buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery.
And then again there was Richard Bong:
"He gained a reputation for stunts such as "looping the loop" around the center span of the Golden Gate Bridge in his P-38, and waving to people in office buildings as he flew along Market Street, for which he was officially reprimanded by Maj. Gen. George Kenney, then commanding the Fourth Air Force."