Page 4 of 13
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:54 pm
by Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Yeah I never liked canned time frames of games. A battle could last days not minutes or it could last minutes not days. It should be that way that the player never really knows when the battle is over until one surrenders or one withdraws or like the victory meter....I'd like to have seen even that be a turn on/off feature so the fow of not knowing when the battle is going to be over is there. Nobody looked at watches and said, ok at 2pm this battle is over.
I have a different view of the time frame for battles than yours.
A small unit I don't think can fight for days. They are very limited in at least two resources; ammunition and endurance.
Combat is tiring. Firing at anyone uses up your ammunition quickly.
A small unit in intense combat could be "used up" in a very short time. Small unit actions didn't last for days. An hour is a long time with full adrenaline and running ducking and dodging.
That's my take on it.
Not to mention the fact that higher headquarters isn't going to give you a week to take that crossroads. You only have artillery support for so long, you are expected to own that crossroads so you can then support an attack on your left flank....etc....etc...etc....
So, a short time frame is at times absolutely accurate. Other times there is more time. I think the short battle times far outweigh the times when the commander had all the time he wanted for the battle.
That's my $.02 on the time issue.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:56 pm
by Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: Stridor
MR,
Below each side's insignia there is a victory meter which moves up if you are doing well and moves down if you are doing badly. The same for your opponent. Once the needle reaches the top, that side wins. The quality of the win/loss (marginal/decisive/legendary) will depend on how well you have done at the expense of your enemy.
Although this still doesn't tell you how long you have left to play the scenario, the rate of change of these victory needles does at least give you some indication.
Good scenario briefings will also tell you the expected play time.
Thanks. That helps.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:06 pm
by Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
I see that. But if you can tell me right here and now what 1/1/1 203 Tank is you are a much better gamer than I am. That tells me exactly nothing except that I hope the target is armor of some kind.
Whether it's a T-34, a KV-1 or a T-26 is all a mystery until you go look in person.
Yeah, I agree, that's why we changed the naming convention for Kharkov to include unit type. Did you try the double-Tab view yet?
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Erik, I've tried alot of things in my life but the double-Tab view isn't one of those!
In answer to your question. No, I haven't. But I'm working up to it.
The answers to the questions I've asked and in other threads about how the games will all be continually upgraded as soon as the games are released will have me order this game today.
Thanks for all the help. I'm going to enjoy seeing an editor and see what I can do with a WWII version of the game I helped develop so many years ago. Our combat model was on Vietnam. Maybe that's why the Army didn't buy it. Infantry combat where we could add tanks to it later. There is a tremendous difference between an infantry game with tanks and a tank game with infantry.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:48 pm
by ravinhood
ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Yeah I never liked canned time frames of games. A battle could last days not minutes or it could last minutes not days. It should be that way that the player never really knows when the battle is over until one surrenders or one withdraws or like the victory meter....I'd like to have seen even that be a turn on/off feature so the fow of not knowing when the battle is going to be over is there. Nobody looked at watches and said, ok at 2pm this battle is over.
I have a different view of the time frame for battles than yours.
A small unit I don't think can fight for days. They are very limited in at least two resources; ammunition and endurance.
Combat is tiring. Firing at anyone uses up your ammunition quickly.
A small unit in intense combat could be "used up" in a very short time. Small unit actions didn't last for days. An hour is a long time with full adrenaline and running ducking and dodging.
That's my take on it.
Not to mention the fact that higher headquarters isn't going to give you a week to take that crossroads. You only have artillery support for so long, you are expected to own that crossroads so you can then support an attack on your left flank....etc....etc...etc....
So, a short time frame is at times absolutely accurate. Other times there is more time. I think the short battle times far outweigh the times when the commander had all the time he wanted for the battle.
That's my $.02 on the time issue.
Good Hunting.
MR
Obviously you are not a student of the "Battle of the Bulge" the Germans set out in that battle for 50 hours 50 hours of FULL SCALE ATTACK and supplies...50 HOURS NON-STOP ATTACKING 50 HOURS!
Last I checked 50 hours was TWO DAYS and 2 Hours.
Now granted Kharkov is going to be but a small very small portion of that big battle, but, none the less those units in that 1km x 1km area during the battle of the Bulge fought no less of the 50 hours than the next group. It was all or nothing. Gung Ho! and all that stuff.
What's german for Gung Ho? btw? any germans out there?
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:55 pm
by junk2drive
That was 49 hours of moving stuff with horses through the terrain that no one thought they were going through and one hour of holy crap there is the enemy.
Seriously, more than an hour long battle usually bores me with tedium as the designer has you moving around turn after turn.
However, with the Campaigns and random campaigns, you can have your long battles.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:57 pm
by ravinhood
Yeah I know Stridor said you could have 2 battles a day at times...maybe even more??
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:14 pm
by Krasny
I too much prefer the colored bases of CM to the floating coins as you call them of PC.
Please oh please can we have bases instead of those plug-ulgy floating coins.
I know real life units don't have bases either, but those floaty coin abominations are just ghastly.
My two-pennoth worth.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:26 pm
by Mobius
ORIGINAL: Krasny
Please oh please can we have bases instead of those plug-ulgy floating coins.
How do you see ground level bases in woods, in buildings and in smoke? The floating coins are at least above a lot of terrain features. Though they do obstruct your view at time.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:31 pm
by Krasny
How do you see the floaty coins in woods?
Bases work in CM1x.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm
by Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: Krasny
How do you see the floaty coins in woods?
Bases work in CM1x.
Without the unit markers, you can't find most units in the woods. In this regard, the markers are essential.
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:50 pm
by ravinhood
ORIGINAL: Krasny
I too much prefer the colored bases of CM to the floating coins as you call them of PC.
Please oh please can we have bases instead of those plug-ulgy floating coins.
I know real life units don't have bases either, but those floaty coin abominations are just ghastly.
My two-pennoth worth.
I second this nomination for colored bases like MINATURES have instead of these floating coins. Whoever saw a minatures game with floating coins over their heads?? Cmon KOIOS guys you know better than this. [:'(]
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:54 pm
by ravinhood
ORIGINAL: Mobius
ORIGINAL: Krasny
Please oh please can we have bases instead of those plug-ulgy floating coins.
How do you see ground level bases in woods, in buildings and in smoke? The floating coins are at least above a lot of terrain features. Though they do obstruct your view at time.
There's a feature called "next unit/previous unit" and in CM that's how I cycled thru my units every turn from A company Leader to ZZ4 if I had that many units.
One could easily find their units in trees or buildings or whatever obstructing features using this or just cycle through the leaders and have them highlight the units in their squad/platoon.
Works for me I want BASES.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:56 pm
by Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: Krasny
I know real life units don't have bases either, but those floaty coin abominations are just ghastly.
Did you know that the icon can be toggled between unit type and nationality?
They can also be toggled off completely.
I don't much care for the bases in CM. They have too much of a day-glow quality to them. And, like a lot of the art in the game, they look really, really cheap. Of course, they can be toggled off, also.
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:56 pm
by Mobius
ORIGINAL: Krasny
How do you see the floaty coins in woods?
Like this.
The infantry is in there somewhere.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:04 pm
by Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: Mobius
ORIGINAL: Krasny
Please oh please can we have bases instead of those plug-ulgy floating coins.
How do you see ground level bases in woods, in buildings and in smoke? The floating coins are at least above a lot of terrain features. Though they do obstruct your view at time.
That's exactly it - we actually looked at bases too. The #1 reason for adding these was player feedback from Winterstorm where they said they had a lot of trouble finding their infantry in woods. The icons make that a lot easier than bases would.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:04 pm
by Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I second this nomination for colored bases like MINATURES have instead of these floating coins. Whoever saw a minatures game with floating coins over their heads?? Cmon KOIOS guys you know better than this. [:'(]
Hey, I've never seen WW2 miniatures with bases that glow in the dark. The guys that I know who game with miniatures do everything that they can to make the bases blend in with the other terrain, usually grass, sand or snow. If Koios were ever replace the icons with bases, for goodness sake, I hope they don't adopt the garish color palate used in CM!
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:05 pm
by Erik Rutins
And yes, if you don't like the icons, it's a key press to turn them off.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:14 pm
by Krasny
Would it be possible to include the option for bases in a patch?
Since PC:OWS had bases it shouldn't be difficult to implement.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:30 pm
by Erik Rutins
Winterstorm did not have bases and sorry but we're not planning to add that in a patch at this time. It could be added for the next release if there's a reasonable level of demand for that option.
RE: CMx1 vs PCK
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:43 pm
by British tommy
Well, as a CM player I'm not too bothered about bases or flying coins, you get used to using either one in the end [:)]
All I want is a game engine that works well, a good AI and editors so I can make my own scenarios. From what I hear, the units and features on the maps can be modded which is a big plus in my books. Just take your time building this game and the end result will be a large group of happy players
