Matrix Games Forums

You propose to convert ARs to AKs?
I'll never give up an AR!

No, I think he means converting some of those types to AR first, then others to AK later.

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You propose to convert ARs to AKs?
I'll never give up an AR!

Sorry... English not my native language... I meant converting the xAKs to AKs whenever possible. There are so many of those (38 Kyushu, 25 Husimi), that I do not know if the Japanese industry will be able to handle the strain.

Besides, once converted to AR, there is no going back... so no temptation there

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Makes sense now that you put it that way; that is thinking of it like a "Hub and Spoke" model, which is probably now the way to go---i.e. major tranport to HUBS like Truk, Saigon, Singapore, etc, and unload-reload to "Spokes", anything with a small port.

That's the way I've always done it. I never tell anyone about my hub locations though. They are a jealously guarded secret. [:-] They also move around. It works very well.

He hasn't told me and I am on the same team as he is[:D]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

ORIGINAL: JWE

<snip>
We put as much thought into this as we did for production. And it’s just as flexible; or not, as you please. My hope is that hull protection and allocation becomes as important as a/c engine production.

Hope we haven’t been too Evil.

You have made it to be, definitely... major food for thought in what you have done with the Japanese side of the logistics nightmare... but oh so much more fun!

If it gets too overwhelming ships can be added at the begiinning of a game via the editor with you and your opponet's agreement. I think everybody wins with this one.

ORIGINAL: JWE


Holy Mike Solli, Batman !! I think I got it !!

Damn, them neurons ain't firing like they are supposed to; probably the alcohol, or maybe the drugs, or the ladies, or the Tabasco on the fish tacos; yeah, that's the ticket, it's the Tabasco - gonna have to switch to Pic-a-Pepper.

John, are you a long lost brother of Pasternakski? I'm beginning to suspect.... [;)]

ORIGINAL: Woos
Not really, Oil converts to Fuel 10:9. I ignored that. And the example was more intended on things like shipping fuel to Baker Island from Tokyo.

ok, but now I know what to look for.

Well, it was always there ((tm) Babylon 5). You just didn't use it. I think Andrew did use it to tune the economy.

Yeah, well, it was hiding behind the Vorlon event horizon, and I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.

ORIGINAL: Mynok

That's the way I've always done it. I never tell anyone about my hub locations though. They are a jealously guarded secret. They also move around. It works very well.

Um....they aren't going to be much of a secret anymore. The hubs are going to require major port facilities and there just aren't that many of those around.

[;)] [:D]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You propose to convert ARs to AKs?
I'll never give up an AR!

Sorry... English not my native language... I meant converting the xAKs to AKs whenever possible. There are so many of those (38 Kyushu, 25 Husimi), that I do not know if the Japanese industry will be able to handle the strain.

Besides, once converted to AR, there is no going back... so no temptation there

I'd have never known if you hadn't pointed it out. [:)]

Wow, what a great discussion. I had to work all day today not near a computer. [8|] The only good thing today was that I got to read the WitpStaff from cover to cover twice. [:D]

ORIGINAL: USS America
John, are you a long lost brother of Pasternakski? I'm beginning to suspect.... [;)]

Maybe a bit. He is one of those R. Crumb fellows, but I'm more of an S. Clay Wilson kinda guy.

Can you wage an effective war without adding any ships? And just convert on a needs basis as the war drags on?

It seems that APs are needed, but you cant convert anything to them...

regarding the need for APs, the AK to carry troops conversion is exactly for this need. tested it with the 4th Division in Osaka; works nicely; while the unit is packed up in strategic mode, the transports convert. It is temporary, you can always reconvert them.

What you really need is an escort expansion program right from the start. i guess that conversion of xAKL to PB is necessary. Otherwise, it will be "to little, to late" like historically.
you should also use the Minekaze class DDs as escorts. with an endurance of 2500, they are not useful for fleet operations anyhow. hav'nt checked the APD Conversion yet. If they keep the DC, it might be useful.

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

<snip>
What you really need is an escort expansion program right from the start. i guess that conversion of xAKL to PB is necessary. Otherwise, it will be "to little, to late" like historically.

you should also use the Minekaze class DDs as escorts. with an endurance of 2500, they are not useful for fleet operations anyhow. hav'nt checked the APD Conversion yet. If they keep the DC, it might be useful.

1. I agree on the xPB conversion program. I believe it should be agressive BEFORE they are really needed, or it will not be enough.

2. Regarding DD to APB conversions, the Momi, the Wakatake, the Minekaze amd the Kamikaze keep the DCs, while the Mutsuki actually GAINS DC capability. They are all 32-day conversion processes. My take on those is to use the APDs as escorts and complements to the transports as needed, not only in fast transport TFs.

NOTE: class 1392 APD Momi, CONVERT TO from class 1382 DD Momi, has a conversion delay of 0... that must be a glitch, right? Or did I alter my database unknowingly? All others are 32 days...

3. Regarding APB to E conversions, the Momi gain an additional single-DC rack, while the Wakatake gain a double-DC rack, and the Minekaze, Mutsuki and Kamikaze gain 2 single-DC racks. Those conversions can be made starting early '43 and, precisely due to the increased DC armament, they are starting to look good to me, as they come online when US torpedo bugs are ironed out. All these are 21-day conversions.

I am wondering if it wouldn't make sense to convert the Ansyus back into xAKs for the initial push and only to convert them wholesale to PBs in mid '42. Through the xAKLs there will be a large number of additional escorts anyway and the extra lift capacity might come in handy.

Great discussion guys! Couple follow up questions:

PB CONVERSIONS: What do you think, Kisos, or To'sus?
To'sus don't cost much in terms of lost cargo space (only 100 tons), but the Kisos have better endurance. I probably lean to To'sus since they can draw fuel from the cargo ships for longer trips.

AK to AK-t: I'm only 4 days in, but it looks to me more and more like a crash AK-t conversion is needed turn 1 to get the 3 divisions in Japan moving (33rd at Nagasaki, 4th in Osaka, 2nd at Sendai)

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
PB CONVERSIONS: What do you think, Kisos, or To'sus?
To'sus don't cost much in terms of lost cargo space (only 100 tons), but the Kisos have better endurance. I probably lean to To'sus since they can draw fuel from the cargo ships for longer trips.

Why not both? So far my idea is to use them for convoy escort while those lovely Cha-1 boats try to reduce the PI sub menace.

AK to AK-t: I'm only 4 days in, but it looks to me more and more like a crash AK-t conversion is needed turn 1 to get the 3 divisions in Japan moving (33rd at Nagasaki, 4th in Osaka, 2nd at Sendai)

I tend to agree. I wonder if it is better to send them out in strategic mode on a transport TF first or go directly for the amphib one.

Regarding the conversion of xAKLs to xPBs, I do not think it can, or should, be done all at once. It will take months to do it all and, while it happens, by all means we should use the xAKLs as transports if and when needed. Besides, Joe wrote something very true in one of his posts, that the dynamics of the war will change, and thus the ability of "Don's babies" to convert back and forth will be very, VERY important. Kiso ships do have one advantage: their conversion takes only 15 days, whereas converting To'su and Ansyu takes 21 days.

As for converting xAKs to xAK-t's, I have not gotten that far yet, but something tells me it will be an important part of all invasion planning. So far I have only had time to look at engine factories, airframe factories, military ship conversions (the 2 CL to CLAA Tenryu conversions in Feb '42, for example, look interesting), and general thoughts on merchant ship and escort conversion... I have not looked at land units yet, with one exception: the paratroopers that I want to drop on Tugergerao... and the planes needed to do that

Boy is this turn 1 taking long... but I had never had so much fun with the first turn of a game since Avalon Hill's The Longest Day...

Regarding the conversion of xAKLs to xPBs, I do not think it can, or should, be done all at once. It will take months to do it all and, while it happens, by all means we should use the xAKLs as transports if and when needed. Besides, Joe wrote something very true in one of his posts, that the dynamics of the war will change, and thus the ability of "Don's babies" to convert back and forth will be very, VERY important. Kiso ships do have one advantage: their conversion takes only 15 days, whereas converting To'su and Ansyu takes 21 days.

Why will it take months?

I wouldn't convert any PB to transport if not absolutly necessary. Every ship lost because of lacking escort will be bigger than the small amount of caro space gained by converting PBs zu transports.

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
NOTE: class 1392 APD Momi, CONVERT TO from class 1382 DD Momi, has a conversion delay of 0... that must be a glitch, right? Or did I alter my database unknowingly? All others are 32 days...

Yes. Data entry typo. Should be 32 days. Will be corrected. Thanks for catching that.