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RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:43 pm
by ChezDaJez
In any case, regardless of whether the Model 32 was actually assigned to a carrier's fighter unit, surely the fact that they were equipped to do so is what should determine whether they were carrier capable. Certainly I would take a Model 22 over a Model 32 as the equipment of choice for my carriers, given its superior range. But if you don't have that choice due to losses, as may well have been the case at the time it was introduced, I see no reason to deny the option of sending the Model 32 to sea aboard your carriers.
The A6M3 model 32 was carrier capable and you can assign a land-based unit to a carrier. However, there is no definitive evidence that any Japanese carrier air group ever employed the model 32 even as replacements. Not saying it never happened, just that there is no evidence to support the idea.
Francillon's "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War" alludes to the model 32 as being land-based but does not conclusively say so. Another of his books "Japanese Carrier Air Groups 1941-1945" mentions only Model 21s and Model 52s as being employed on carriers.
Hata and Izawa's book "Japanese Naval Aces and Fighter Units in World War II" lists the specific aircraft assigned to each carrier air group. Unit markings are also covered in good detail. The Model 21, 22 and 52 are all listed but the model 32 is not mentioned at all. You can find plenty of mention of the Model 32 in the land unit histories of this book. Many land-units flew a mixture of models. For example, the 2nd Air Group (renamed Air Group 582 Nov 42) operated out of Buna during the Guadacanal Campaign and employed both model 32s and model 22s.
I understand your point about replacing CV losses quickly. Truth is the Japanese just didn't do it that way. Carrier air groups were typically replenished upon return to Japan and would draw new aircraft there. You can transfer a land-based model 32 unit to a carrier as a stop gap measure.
Personally, I don't understand why the Japanese didn't assign Model 32s to CV groups and reserve the Model 22s for land units. Seems like a better fit to me in regards to range. I would want Model 22s to escort my Bettys and the model 32 has plenty of range to escort carrier bombers.
Anyways, we agree to disagree on this point. You can transfer a land-based model 32 unit to a carrier as a stop gap measure and there is always the editor.
Chez
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:47 pm
by Mike Solli
What do you think of this, guys? I'm thinking of adding the TBO in each box.

RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:51 pm
by scout1
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
What do you think of this, guys? I'm thinking of adding the TBO in each box.
Sweet .... we's likes pictures ............[;)]
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:56 pm
by Mike Solli
It's interesting to see that the A6M2 is now pretty much a dead end. It's the A6M3 that evolves now.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:21 pm
by Kitakami
I will have the TBO for INJ planes ready later on tonight. And the charts are a GREAT idea.
The question is then, what do we do with the 56(0) A6M2 factory now? And when?

RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:40 pm
by Mike Solli
Good question, Kitakami. We'll need A6M2s for quite a while. I'd recommend to at least 12/42 when the A6M3a arrives. That's the next possible upgrade for carrier air. It's going to have to be expanded to 112 too.
I'll probably consider converting an R&D facility (late war) to the A6M2 Sen Baku, to get those planes in 2/44. There are a couple of daitai, I believe.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:54 pm
by Mike Solli
Hmm, just discovered something. The A6M2 is not a dead end. Here's the upgrade path:
A6M2 (Fighter) --> A6M2 Sen Baku (FB in 2/44) --> A6M5b (Fighter in 6/44).
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:56 pm
by Mike Solli
Now I'm tempted to increase the A6M2 factory to 112, let it upgrade to the Sen Baku in 2/44, produce some number of them, then shut it off until 6/44 and turn it back on when it upgrades to A6M5b.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:22 pm
by Monter_Trismegistos
Hi... a typo?
J2M2 -> J2M3 -> J2M2 (again?)
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:22 pm
by Mike Solli
Ok, I'm done with FF, FB and F. Note how they all feed into the A6M series:

RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:24 pm
by Monter_Trismegistos
Hi Mike - since you were writing a post, you probably missed mine - look up for my previous one.
BTW. When can I expect your first AAR? I liked your listing of each turns reinforcements and where you are sending them.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:26 pm
by Mike Solli
Yup, it's a typo. Supposed to be J2M5. That's what happens when you copy and paste. [:D] Thanks.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:29 pm
by Mike Solli
AAR? LOL This fall, maybe. My long time PBEM partner (tc464) and I are going to start one in a couple of months. I've only run one turn and that was the historical 7 Dec turn to see what changes there were in the industry. Still messing around with my love - production.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:20 am
by vonSchnitter
Here comes the list of all IJ airgroups - which should help a little for factory capacity planning.
The pic just shows the results for the claude.
The xls is set up to group air units by AC type and to filter by spawn date.
This way the numbers for AC actually in the group or in reserve are added up and can be compared to AC required by totalling the max AC colum.
Keep in mind though: The spawn dates of ship-borne airgroups depend on the date of their respective ships arrival. (spawn date 99999)
Filtering on say groups spawning until end of 42 will not show the requirements of Junyo etc.
I have omitted the unit withdrawals completely.
IJ Airgroups

RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:18 am
by Gilbert
@ Mike Solli
Thanks for the Plane wire chart, very neat and useful[&o]
@ VonSchnitter
Thanks for this incredibly amazing IJ airgroups chart[X(][&o]
Gilbert
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:38 am
by Mike Solli
vonSchnitter, thanks much.
I'm still working on the diagrams. About 2/3 done. Hope to finish them today. Then I'll figure out how to post a link. (I'm computer illiterate when it comes to that.) [:D]
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:03 pm
by Kitakami
A very simple TBO tabulation that includes upgrade paths and CV air groups, but without dates.
It has some minor errors (I missed some group resizings), and I did not include detachments in the numbers, but it should give us a decent idea of how many planes of each are to be constructed without PDU on. With that, it becomes a totally different thing entirely
Files is a csv file renamed as txt. rename before using.
Hope it helps.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:13 pm
by erstad
No production of the C5M2, and no upgrade path till the Irving comes along. Seems like with the limited factory situation, once I run out, they sit till Irvings. Anyone see it differently?
Too bad we can't navalize some Ki-15's.
RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:27 pm
by Kitakami
@erstad,
It's either assigning a factory to that, or simply forgetting about them. I am inclined to just forget about them

RE: Japanese airframe production
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:45 pm
by n01487477
Use it ... Don't use it ... but this has pretty much all you need[;)]
AirFrame Production
Engines & calc
ALL Airgroups
If you want to reinvent the wheel ...