Matrix Games Forums

From another thread:

ORIGINAL: ShotmanMaslo

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

M3 fell flat on its face. BoTF wasn't much better, if at all, from M2.

Doesn't make much sense to have colony ships that can be intercepted and destroyed while populations moving between planets can't be.

The best way mentioned here in my opinion is to have population migration as an automatic background function, maybe with setting priority planets. This function can then automatically create population transport ships which can be intercepted and destroyed (like automatic trade ships in Sins).
Best of both worlds.[:)]

That sounds perfect. Great idea. Thanks.
It seems so obvious to combine the two features like that yet no game like Armada 2526 has done it yet. I hope that Ntronium accepts the idea and can implement it. I will copy and paste this in the wish list thread.

1. Turn based battles!!!!
2. Planet Gouveners.
3. Galactic map that cover the screen.
4. A Very large VERY diverse tech tree.
5. Custom ships.
6. The ability to name every thing.
7.Random events.

Technically, we already have #2 when we have the colony auto manage.

*ship design feature
*tactical combat module expanded

 

The best way mentioned here in my opinion is to have population migration as an automatic background function, maybe with setting priority planets. This function can then automatically create population transport ships which can be intercepted and destroyed (like automatic trade ships in Sins).

 
Well, I don't want pop from Rich and Very Rich worlds to go to other places, because I'll be losing tax money - especially poor systems. I don't want pop from a system where I'm waiting for a new slot to open to go anywhere else. I don't want a system where I'm building Marines or Tanks or Arks to go under 10 pop.
Also, "automatically create population transports" doesn't mean anything. The transports have to be built. They'll take up a shipyard for quite a few turns. Those SYs might be busy with something else.
 
As good as it might sound, it's not that simple.

ORIGINAL: Iceman

 

The best way mentioned here in my opinion is to have population migration as an automatic background function, maybe with setting priority planets. This function can then automatically create population transport ships which can be intercepted and destroyed (like automatic trade ships in Sins).

Well, I don't want pop from Rich and Very Rich worlds to go to other places, because I'll be losing tax money - especially poor systems. I don't want pop from a system where I'm waiting for a new slot to open to go anywhere else. I don't want a system where I'm building Marines or Tanks or Arks to go under 10 pop.
Also, "automatically create population transports" doesn't mean anything. The transports have to be built. They'll take up a shipyard for quite a few turns. Those SYs might be busy with something else.

As good as it might sound, it's not that simple.

Well, transports have to be build now. The way I imagine it is that transports dont require government shipyards to be built, because they are just simple civilian liners. Or maybe you should add new "Civilian shipyard" which would be cheap to build and maintain, so there is no problem. This way every planet will spawn transport ships and trade ships for internal empire trade (another suggestion - internal trade like in Sins, new building - "basic trade port"), which would then form convoys and inner empire traffic. You will have to protect this traffic from the enemies and also can attack enemy traffic convoys, which would then lose money or poulation. - would make game more interesting. In every good scifi there are lots of civilian convoys and trade ships and government duty is to protect them.

If you dont want your population to migrate somewhere or from somewhere, you will have the option to disable it in the planet population menu (forbid immigration, forbid emigration switches). What about that?[:)]

Yummy, replacing MM with MM!  [;)]
 
Seriously, I can't really comment because I think pop transport should be made harder, not easier. This makes planet Habitability almost an after thought. If systems had to grow by themselves, it'd be much more of a factor. Only situational pop transportation should be required IMO.
 
Oh, and ark ships are civilian ships too. [:'(]  And another shipyard is another slot being taken up.

ORIGINAL: Iceman

Yummy, replacing MM with MM!  [;)]

Seriously, I can't really comment because I think pop transport should be made harder, not easier. This makes planet Habitability almost an after thought. If systems had to grow by themselves, it'd be much more of a factor. Only situational pop transportation should be required IMO.

Oh, and ark ships are civilian ships too. [:'(]  And another shipyard is another slot being taken up.

It would be far less mm than whats it now, especially for large empires. Ark ships are big government ordered ships to colonoze new worlds, they need all infrastructure to build initial colony with them. This is not needed for many small civilian transport ships. One slot doesnt matter. Or we could made it that small civilian trade ships and liners dont need government shipyards at all. Thats for bigger ships and battleships.

ORIGINAL: ShotmanMaslo

Well, transports have to be build now. The way I imagine it is that transports dont require government shipyards to be built, because they are just simple civilian liners. Or maybe you should add new "Civilian shipyard" which would be cheap to build and maintain, so there is no problem. This way every planet will spawn transport ships and trade ships for internal empire trade (another suggestion - internal trade like in Sins, new building - "basic trade port"), which would then form convoys and inner empire traffic. You will have to protect this traffic from the enemies and also can attack enemy traffic convoys, which would then lose money or poulation. - would make game more interesting. In every good scifi there are lots of civilian convoys and trade ships and government duty is to protect them.

If you dont want your population to migrate somewhere or from somewhere, you will have the option to disable it in the planet population menu (forbid immigration, forbid emigration switches). What about that?

I think you might have something here. Create a trade port structure. The basic trade port allows population migration. If you don't build one then nothing happens so you can control population migration. An advanced trade port acts like an internal version of a trade mission. Building one on a poor planet that is in the center of a cluster of your planets would help raise tax income by making that planet an internal trading center.

The decisions to build or not build becomes part of your strategic empire management decision process (a one time action on your part rather than recurring actions). This would reduce the micromanagement feel that I get now at having to balance population between planets.

This also gives you two new techs to research and until you do it is business as usual. The population management issue for me is more an end game annoyance so having it something that needs to be researched allows you to fix it before you enter the end game phase.

If you don't want the automation don't research it or build it.

You could even give the ability to research these techs XML tags and then you could have these techs as a racial features. Some races don't have the trade/migration features because of their culture.

Just a thought to try and strike some middle ground here.

Less MM? You have to build those civilian SYs in a bunch of systems. And more upkeep. And more pop to assign to it. You have to know how many transports you'll build in each - how do you do that BTW? Also, how do you control when you've built enough, if it's automatic? You''l have to check each system regularly to see if you have to check/uncheck the immigration switch.

ORIGINAL: Iceman

Less MM? You have to build those civilian SYs in a bunch of systems. And more upkeep. And more pop to assign to it. You have to know how many transports you'll build in each - how do you do that BTW? Also, how do you control when you've built enough, if it's automatic? You''l have to check each system regularly to see if you have to check/uncheck the immigration switch.

You have to build one SY in every system you colonize. Upkeep can be set to a minimum for such structure. Thats all. Just like transport/trade system in Sins. Why pop assignnig and transport building? I imagine the system to be automatic - AI will build automatic civilian transports when needed for free (cost included in SY upkeep), fill them up with emigrants and send them to their destinations, where they will dissappear. Civilian liners simulation. (+trade ships would be cool..)
Goverment today is not controlling all migration and movement of people, why should it in the future? Switches would be just in case you wanna block certain planet from emigration or immigration or control it yourself - they will be off by default and AI will handle all migration.

If one structure slot and upkeep is a problem, civilian liners can even be produced without them - say they are small simple and private ships, so they dont need big government SYs needed to build battleships or government issued colonisation Arks, just planet itself:)

Pop assignment because all srtuctures *need* pop to work. Transport building if you want them to be interceptable. You mean you want pop to disappear from the game and then reappear upon arrival? That might be hard to do...
Pop movement in space is kind of different I imagine...
What you really want to get rid of transports altogether it seems. It's not making any sense anymore if you ask me.

Let me try to redefine this, to see if I understand the intent. 

You can research a Trade Port Structure, with possible upgrades, it will be low cost with a medium upkeep.  The AI will build temporary transport ships here, probably one per turn if needed, to move population to another system with a Trade Port.  These will not cost you anything except pop and lost income while in transit.  They are actual ships that can be attacked, but disappear on arrival.  You will be able to set min/max population values at the Port, which the AI will use to determine migration.  Default values might be 15/50.  It will also build trade ships that create income on arriving at another Port.  Again, temporary and can be attacked.

Sounds cool, but I am guessing hard, maybe impossible, to implement in Armada.  [&:]

ORIGINAL: Kid

I would like to have an optional "marathon" mode like in Civ IV that would greatly slow down research and production.

Yes!! I keep running out of techs to research. I'd also loke options like "No tech trading" during game set-up.

double post

This page 3 is golden with great population immigration and emmigration ideas. I hope that Ntronium can use them. Here is it all summarized.

-----

Wade1000
Matrix Trooper


From another thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShotmanMaslo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

M3 fell flat on its face. BoTF wasn't much better, if at all, from M2.

Doesn't make much sense to have colony ships that can be intercepted and destroyed while populations moving between planets can't be.


The best way mentioned here in my opinion is to have population migration as an automatic background function, maybe with setting priority planets. This function can then automatically create population transport ships which can be intercepted and destroyed (like automatic trade ships in Sins).
Best of both worlds.


That sounds perfect. Great idea. Thanks.
It seems so obvious to combine the two features like that yet no game like Armada 2526 has done it yet. I hope that Ntronium accepts the idea and can implement it. I will copy and paste this in the wish list thread.

-----

ShotmanMaslo
Matrix Trooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iceman


quote:

The best way mentioned here in my opinion is to have population migration as an automatic background function, maybe with setting priority planets. This function can then automatically create population transport ships which can be intercepted and destroyed (like automatic trade ships in Sins).

Well, I don't want pop from Rich and Very Rich worlds to go to other places, because I'll be losing tax money - especially poor systems. I don't want pop from a system where I'm waiting for a new slot to open to go anywhere else. I don't want a system where I'm building Marines or Tanks or Arks to go under 10 pop.
Also, "automatically create population transports" doesn't mean anything. The transports have to be built. They'll take up a shipyard for quite a few turns. Those SYs might be busy with something else.

As good as it might sound, it's not that simple.


Well, transports have to be build now. The way I imagine it is that transports dont require government shipyards to be built, because they are just simple civilian liners. Or maybe you should add new "Civilian shipyard" which would be cheap to build and maintain, so there is no problem. This way every planet will spawn transport ships and trade ships for internal empire trade (another suggestion - internal trade like in Sins, new building - "basic trade port"), which would then form convoys and inner empire traffic. You will have to protect this traffic from the enemies and also can attack enemy traffic convoys, which would then lose money or poulation. - would make game more interesting. In every good scifi there are lots of civilian convoys and trade ships and government duty is to protect them.

If you dont want your population to migrate somewhere or from somewhere, you will have the option to disable it in the planet population menu (forbid immigration, forbid emigration switches). What about that?

-----

Grandpoobah
Matrix Recruit

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShotmanMaslo

Well, transports have to be build now. The way I imagine it is that transports dont require government shipyards to be built, because they are just simple civilian liners. Or maybe you should add new "Civilian shipyard" which would be cheap to build and maintain, so there is no problem. This way every planet will spawn transport ships and trade ships for internal empire trade (another suggestion - internal trade like in Sins, new building - "basic trade port"), which would then form convoys and inner empire traffic. You will have to protect this traffic from the enemies and also can attack enemy traffic convoys, which would then lose money or poulation. - would make game more interesting. In every good scifi there are lots of civilian convoys and trade ships and government duty is to protect them.

If you dont want your population to migrate somewhere or from somewhere, you will have the option to disable it in the planet population menu (forbid immigration, forbid emigration switches). What about that?


I think you might have something here. Create a trade port structure. The basic trade port allows population migration. If you don't build one then nothing happens so you can control population migration. An advanced trade port acts like an internal version of a trade mission. Building one on a poor planet that is in the center of a cluster of your planets would help raise tax income by making that planet an internal trading center.

The decisions to build or not build becomes part of your strategic empire management decision process (a one time action on your part rather than recurring actions). This would reduce the micromanagement feel that I get now at having to balance population between planets.

This also gives you two new techs to research and until you do it is business as usual. The population management issue for me is more an end game annoyance so having it something that needs to be researched allows you to fix it before you enter the end game phase.

If you don't want the automation don't research it or build it.

You could even give the ability to research these techs XML tags and then you could have these techs as a racial features. Some races don't have the trade/migration features because of their culture.

Just a thought to try and strike some middle ground here.

-----

ShotmanMaslo
Matrix Trooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iceman

Less MM? You have to build those civilian SYs in a bunch of systems. And more upkeep. And more pop to assign to it. You have to know how many transports you'll build in each - how do you do that BTW? Also, how do you control when you've built enough, if it's automatic? You''l have to check each system regularly to see if you have to check/uncheck the immigration switch.


You have to build one SY in every system you colonize. Upkeep can be set to a minimum for such structure. Thats all. Just like transport/trade system in Sins. Why pop assignnig and transport building? I imagine the system to be automatic - AI will build automatic civilian transports when needed for free (cost included in SY upkeep), fill them up with emigrants and send them to their destinations, where they will dissappear. Civilian liners simulation. (+trade ships would be cool..)
Goverment today is not controlling all migration and movement of people, why should it in the future? Switches would be just in case you wanna block certain planet from emigration or immigration or control it yourself - they will be off by default and AI will handle all migration.

If one structure slot and upkeep is a problem, civilian liners can even be produced without them - say they are small simple and private ships, so they dont need big government SYs needed to build battleships or government issued colonisation Arks, just planet itself:)

-----

Andrew Loveridge
Matrix Games Staff

Let me try to redefine this, to see if I understand the intent.

You can research a Trade Port Structure, with possible upgrades, it will be low cost with a medium upkeep. The AI will build temporary transport ships here, probably one per turn if needed, to move population to another system with a Trade Port. These will not cost you anything except pop and lost income while in transit. They are actual ships that can be attacked, but disappear on arrival. You will be able to set min/max population values at the Port, which the AI will use to determine migration. Default values might be 15/50. It will also build trade ships that create income on arriving at another Port. Again, temporary and can be attacked.

Sounds cool, but I am guessing hard, maybe impossible, to implement in Armada.

ORIGINAL: Andrew Loveridge

Sounds cool, but I am guessing hard, maybe impossible, to implement in Armada.  [&:]

I'd be surprised if it was. You already have the basic function in the game, the shuttle.

The trade port structure might invoke a function that allows you to set some parameters for the shuttle it creates.

The new function might work by clicking on a port structure that opens a window where you set a max population number then allocate some transports to it. The new function would then use these transports to set up shuttles to move any population that exceeds the max population number that you set. It would choose the planets that it thinks could use population. The fact that it might not make the most efficient choices is in keeping with the other bureaucratic empire feelings in the game. Bureaucracy is hardly ever efficient.

The transports that uses the shuttle feature already appear on the map so nothing new required here. The shuttles can already be intercepted and attacked. Again nothing new is required for that.

If all the transports that are assigned get destroyed, the port structure issues a message that indicates no transports. You'll need to add a new message here.

If the population falls below the max number the port function just cancels the shuttle and if it raises above the max number, it starts the shuttle up again.

The important thing is that population management becomes a set and forget type of function and not a constant recurring item that takes time every turn.

I don't say it will be quick to put in but it should not be impossible to add.

ORIGINAL: Grandpoobah

ORIGINAL: Andrew Loveridge

Sounds cool, but I am guessing hard, maybe impossible, to implement in Armada.  [&:]

I'd be surprised if it was. You already have the basic function in the game, the shuttle.

The trade port structure might invoke a function that allows you to set some parameters for the shuttle it creates.

The new function might work by clicking on a port structure that opens a window where you set a max population number then allocate some transports to it. The new function would then use these transports to set up shuttles to move any population that exceeds the max population number that you set. It would choose the planets that it thinks could use population. The fact that it might not make the most efficient choices is in keeping with the other bureaucratic empire feelings in the game. Bureaucracy is hardly ever efficient.

The transports that uses the shuttle feature already appear on the map so nothing new required here. The shuttles can already be intercepted and attacked. Again nothing new is required for that.

If all the transports that are assigned get destroyed, the port structure issues a message that indicates no transports. You'll need to add a new message here.

If the population falls below the max number the port function just cancels the shuttle and if it raises above the max number, it starts the shuttle up again.

The important thing is that population management becomes a set and forget type of function and not a constant recurring item that takes time every turn.

I don't say it will be quick to put in but it should not be impossible to add.

Yes, thats the way I imagine it. I would also remove the population transport ship assigning and population allocating, and let the AI handle free shuttle creation without it (shuttle cost included in the port upkeep), so there would be no need for transport building, no transport message and another MM. But it would be good even as you said it.[:)]

Population is the main asset in the game. If you don't *have* to manage it, then I don't know what exactly you think *should* be managed in the game. After all, it's supposed to be a 4X game, managing resources is one of the staples in the genre...

BTW, Transport ships are not just about transporting population. I use them to transport Light Missiles too, from Rich and Very Rich systems (where they're cheaper to build) to other systems.
So I wouldn't really want the current system to change - at least significantly, in a way that it would subvert this other face of transports.

More for wish list:

I believe that the vast, forum-silent majority do not mod or use mods and they do not want to. They, like me, would rather wait for official updates while continuing to try a game or while playing other games. I wish there was not such a focus by developers towards us to mod games. It only discourages the mentioned majority players.

I have seen this on other game forums also and it is usually only about 5 to 10 players that often talk about modding.

Though, I do appreciate that modding is available to those that like it.