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ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

Something I've noticed in a surrounded stack as Japan in 1945: When supplies are low the HQ units suck them all up and my infantry and arty units are left out to dry...

I'm thinking the next time I need to do a last stand, I'll try to leave no more than two HQ units (a Corps and Army) in the stack.

I'd get them all out before they get surrounded even if they get caught and destroyed. They serve no function right on the front line anyway (except for island invasions and maybe if you're the ones doing the surrounding). Think Meade's HQ at Gettysburg. What are those dead horses accomplishing?

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

Something I've noticed in a surrounded stack as Japan in 1945: When supplies are low the HQ units suck them all up and my infantry and arty units are left out to dry...

I'm thinking the next time I need to do a last stand, I'll try to leave no more than two HQ units (a Corps and Army) in the stack.

I'd get them all out before they get surrounded even if they get caught and destroyed. They serve no function right on the front line anyway (except for island invasions and maybe if you're the ones doing the surrounding). Think Meade's HQ at Gettysburg. What are those dead horses accomplishing?

Lunch?

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

Something I've noticed in a surrounded stack as Japan in 1945: When supplies are low the HQ units suck them all up and my infantry and arty units are left out to dry...

I'm thinking the next time I need to do a last stand, I'll try to leave no more than two HQ units (a Corps and Army) in the stack.

I'll agree with that. Those rear area boys seem to suck up lot's of supplies.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

Something I've noticed in a surrounded stack as Japan in 1945: When supplies are low the HQ units suck them all up and my infantry and arty units are left out to dry...

I'm thinking the next time I need to do a last stand, I'll try to leave no more than two HQ units (a Corps and Army) in the stack.

I'll agree with that. Those rear area boys seem to suck up lot's of supplies.

They get the first dibs on the cigarettes and candy bars . . . [:D]

Guess it is OK to give this goldern thread a bump after one year?

haegint wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:11 pm Guess it is OK to give this goldern thread a bump after one year?

One year is nothing, sometimes people on this forum resurrect even 10 yr old threads and often rightfully so.

Bump....GP

(D.1) LCU supply cost

Most players emphasise the Assault Value (AV) of a LCU instead of the combat firepower of the unit which is a much more useful measure. The merits of the two measures is however a discussion best left to another day. What players do generally tend to pay little attention is the cost of maintaining a unit out in the field.

The average size of a fully built up Allied division is about 450 AV. A fully equipped Chinese LCU could be double this but they tend to lack access to the necessary supply. A division of about 450 AV, which is not engaged in combat will consume approximately 1500 supply points monthly, or 50 daily. A brigade of approximately 150 AV not engaged in combat will consume approximately 500 supply points monthly.

------------------

Alfred analysis is incomplete here. An LCU has Supplies Required value. If the unit is in a non-base hex and is not engaged in combat, then you will notice (counting manually) that an active device consumes 1 supply point, while a disabled device consumes 0.5 supply point.

Here an interesting article about logistic.

Impressive the numbers and the effort expended to make everything run.
Astounding the difference between allied and japanese philosophy.
Also interesting the unit of measure of tons for loading supply on ships.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/L/o/Logistics.htm

Bump....GP

Alfred wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:07 pm

ORIGINAL: pompack

Fantastic Alfred! [&o]

I have also saved this to my personal note file for "things to remember when trying to play AE"

One small note: I think that the supply cost for an LCU engaging in combat is much larger than the daily log cost, but I don't have a clue how to quantify it beyond "Lots"

pompack,

The figure given under (D.1) is only a rule of thumb for a division not fighting. Section (D.4) notes, without providing any concrete maths, that the cost of taking on replacements is equal to the load cost. I would suggest the "Lots" you experience is the cost associated with taking on replacements simultaneously as you are fighting.

Basically, irrespective of the load cost each device consumes a single supply point. It is when the unit is taking on replacements that the supply cost ratchets up as the cost is based on the quite different load rating of the different devices. So replacing a destroyed tank device is going to cost more supply than replacing a destroyed infantry squad.

Alfred

Too bad Alfred didn't get into details of supply consumption in combat.

It seems that biggest supply usage in LCUs during combat is in their artillery devices. They seem to use between 10-13 supply points per arty tube (including those inefficient mortars with range of 3). Other devices (squads, AFVs, engineers etc.) seem to use 1-2 points in combat. The more arty tubes you have in an LCU, the quicker this LCU will burn your supplies.

This is why you shouldn't perform prolonged arty duels with your LCUs, since they will burn inordinate amounts of supplies shooting those pesky mortars for no gain. This is a real problem in Chinese corps LCUs which are mortar-heavy in their TOE and can have i.e 36 mortars and eight 75mm guns. Involving them in battery/counter-battery duels is supply suicide. If you engage in such behaviour across the whole front in China, well, congrats, you have succesfully installed an (almost) invisible supply sink.

"Basically, irrespective of the load cost each device consumes a single supply point."

To be clear, it is per month!

So the daily formula is something like:
Add all present devices together (active & disabled)
Divide by 30
Deduct that number of supply points from the ready reserve (what is listed on the unit screen)
Replace the ready reserve from the closes valid base + if future expected expenditure is higher, draw more.

At some point in this thread Alfred states that:"There is a very easy way, without the need to do any calculating at all, to determine when the enemy stack/garrison is out of supply."
Would anyone pls explain? I know that when the enemy stops AA fire or counterbattery fire it is a good clue. Was Alfred referring to sth else?
Txs you all

I think he was referring to AA and counterbattery fire.

Some LCUs may have no heavy AA guns in their TOEs (Japanese divisions, Chinese corps) or lost all their field artillery beforehand in retreats (Chinese corps), but can be almost at 100% TOE and in full supply.

Alfred wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:37 pm
There were some 50-50 points I had decided to not include which upon further reflection, maybe should be included. These possible additional points include:

• explanation of fuel consumption by ships
• the role of tenders, port size and naval support in rearming ships
• limitations of sub transport
• why the supply cost for taking on airframe replacements is not necessarily paid at the airfield where the squadron is located
• how to calculate the time needed to unload cargo at a port
• to put in context the ship rearming formula, add some examples of rearming specific weapons/ship classes
• provide some examples of the supply cost of individual LCU device replacements
• comment somewhere about atoll overstacking
• role of SPS in building base facilities
• further elaboration on use of aircraft transportation
• commentary on task force composition/mission

Alfred

Hi,

Did these additional points get dealt with in a post(s) elsewhere on the forum?

Thanks

ian77 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:58 am Did these additional points get dealt with in a post(s) elsewhere on the forum?

Maybe someone else has an answer, but Alfred himself has ceased posting on this forum.

Platoonist wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:22 am

ian77 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:58 am Did these additional points get dealt with in a post(s) elsewhere on the forum?

Maybe someone else has an answer, but Alfred himself has ceased posting on this forum.

Yes . . .

RangerJoe wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:44 pm

Platoonist wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:22 am

ian77 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:58 am Did these additional points get dealt with in a post(s) elsewhere on the forum?

Maybe someone else has an answer, but Alfred himself has ceased posting on this forum.

Yes . . .

Ian,

Yes, they all did. But you're going to need to search through the forums. Almost all by Alfred himself. This 101 is in itself mostly a compilation of earlier Alfred posts. He just pulled everything together. These extras, he just didn't take the time to put into this response, but they are out there. Some have just been re-hashed recently (airframe supply cost borne at remote base).

Perhaps a bit OFF Topic, but can not find a better place to ask for this


I am having problems loading/ unloading heavy artillery

I have no idea where to find the port size / naval requirements, whatever to unload my 30 cm, 24cm and so on

I decide to buy several kwantung heavy arty to bombard Corregidor, then had problems loading these in Fusan.

So.. I sent these to Port Arthur, and finally got them loaded

So i sent them towards Manila, tried landing in a couple areas (unsure exact ones, believe port 1) but then i could land these in a port size 2, perhaps had to dock them.

So, after capturing the base, sent these towards bangkok.. a size 4 port... but uncapable

Guess problem is similar to reload naval heavy weapons, I need some Naval support or whatever, but can not find exact values

Device Load cost for these mortars is 198,139, 58

Another topic, port 0 unload resources (supply?)
Peleliu has no port (0), I wanted to unload a few resources onto it to get the industry going. Found no way to do it. No unload available at port 0. Can i do something about it? A specific ship class? AK? Some naval support on it?