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RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:15 pm
by mdiehl
And these are all computer games.
None of them are. Any of them could be. Matrix has, at times, toyed with the idea of making computer format versions of WiF and AWAW. I'd bet that no one even owns the copyright to Carrier Battles/The Iron Samurai any more. (Carrier battles is the air attack/air search rules subset. Iron Samurai is the surface combat subset).
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:37 pm
by JeffroK
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
You left out The Eagle and the Sun!
In the immortal words of Gimli the dwarf: "It was deliberate."
Why,
Its one of the prettiest games I ever bought.
Too bad the rules are a total FUBAR.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:58 pm
by mdiehl
Why,Its one of the prettiest games I ever bought.Too bad the rules are a total FUBAR.
Because the rules are a total FUBAR. [;)]
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:15 am
by Shark7
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
I dunno. I looked at the top of the forum page and it reads "Matrix GAMES Forums". It's a realistic game, but a game nonetheless.
Me too. But this is a very complex topic, ilovestrategy. It could also be ConSim. Probably depending on what you ate at breakfast.
It seems that to decide what it is, is VERY important to our future and the future of WitP AE, as it will change something FUNDAMENTAL about the way we look at the map
of the Pacific. I don´t know what, but mdiehl wil explain for sure. [;)]
LoBaron, I think I can simplify it...at least as I see it.
I play WiTP:AE to relax and have fun, there for it is a game, period. No matter what anyone else wants to call it, I'm not running a sim to see if carrier Akagi is sunk at Midway 99 out of 100 times, I'm playing simply to have fun. It's a game. [:)]
I think if everyone would remember
why they are playing instead of trying to define
what they are playing we'd all be happier. [:)]
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:24 am
by ilovestrategy
Exactly Shark, you hit it right on the nail head!
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:02 am
by LoBaron
Hear, hear! Well said!
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:37 pm
by mdiehl
It's a Consim, or claims to be one, period, no matter what anyone else says. The expectation therefore is that it should not generate wildly implausible results when the players choices result in engagements that are broadly analogous to historical ones. That's why people buy Consims, rather than simply play chess or checkers.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:01 pm
by ilovestrategy
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
It's a Consim, or claims to be one, period, no matter what anyone else says. The expectation therefore is that it should not generate wildly implausible results when the players choices result in engagements that are broadly analogous to historical ones. That's why people buy Consims, rather than simply play chess or checkers.
For years I've read posts in this forum talking about Dec. 7th results ranging from every ship sunk at Pearl to not a ship scratched. That sounds like wildly implausible results to me. It's a game, no matter what anyone says.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:10 pm
by mdiehl
It claims, by advertising and subject material, to be a Consim. It may not be a well designed one though.
If it was just all about "playing a game" there's whole arenas where one doesn't expect the game engine to be indexed to anything real, because wars of Middle Earth, Klendathu, the Federation, the Kzin, etc. are fictional.
But someone else already addressed your claim. If advert campaign for WitP said "It's only a game, so don't expect much" then people who buy WW2 consims would avoid it like the plague.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:16 pm
by ckammp
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
It claims, by advertising and subject material, to be a Consim. It may not be a well designed one though.
If it was just all about "playing a game" there's whole arenas where one doesn't expect the game engine to be indexed to anything real, because wars of Middle Earth, Klendathu, the Federation, the Kzin, etc. are fictional.
But someone else already addressed your claim. If advert campaign for WitP said "It's only a game, so don't expect much" then people who buy WW2 consims would avoid it like the plague.
In what advertising is AE claimed to be a Consim?
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:29 pm
by mdiehl
On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:58 pm
by ckammp
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."
Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.
As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.
Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:00 pm
by mjk428
ORIGINAL: ckammp
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."
Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.
As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.
Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.
It was already posted on the previous page. Try reading the whole thread next time.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:02 pm
by Mac Linehan
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
Pax your new avatar is awesome! [X(]
I must delightfully agree - a very lovely Lady, Sir.
Mac
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:07 pm
by mjk428
ORIGINAL: Shark7
I play WiTP:AE to relax and have fun, there for it is a game, period. No matter what anyone else wants to call it, I'm not running a sim to see if carrier Akagi is sunk at Midway 99 out of 100 times, I'm playing simply to have fun. It's a game. [:)]
I think if everyone would remember why they are playing instead of trying to define what they are playing we'd all be happier. [:)]
Bully for you. Not everybody is you. Some people have higher expectations from a $100 historical wargame.
You'd be satisfied with AE 1.0 or even AE beta. Thank goodness the AE team didn't sit on their laurels.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:12 pm
by mdiehl
Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.
Read it again.
As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.
The claim to be "about" "War in the Pacific" makes it a Consim. That's why it's not entitled "Bits vs Bites: A Game Involving a Really Complicated Bunch of Parameters that Two Players Can Manipulate in order to Have the Greatest Affect on the Data Table at the End of a Fixed Number of Iterative Interactions."
Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.
"Lying" is it? Nuts! to you. ..l.,
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:38 pm
by ckammp
ORIGINAL: mjk428
ORIGINAL: ckammp
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
On the box cover, where it says "War in the Pacific." On the product description where it is descrived as "brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever."
Nothing on the product descripton claims AE is a Consim.
As for the box cover, "War in the Pacific" is simply a title, not a claim to be a Consim.
Either show proof of your claims, or stop lying.
It was already posted on the previous page. Try reading the whole thread next time.
Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.
Try to focus on the correct
game, okay?
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:44 pm
by mdiehl
Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.
Wow. Talk about your basic semantic harisplitting evasiveness.
You ARE aware that they're the same game save that "AE" is an extensively patched WitP, aren't you? That's why the original is called "War in the Pacific" and the update is called "War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition."
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:44 pm
by mjk428
ORIGINAL: ckammp
Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.
Try to focus on the correct game, okay?
War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
AE was built upon WitP. In fact originally WitP was going to be required - partly because AE was even more detailed than its predecessor.
You're in a deep hole. You might want to stop digging.
RE: The art of "averaging out"
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:55 pm
by ckammp
ORIGINAL: mjk428
ORIGINAL: ckammp
Your link goes to WitP, not AE. I specifically asked about AE.
Try to focus on the correct game, okay?
War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
AE was built upon WitP. In fact originally WitP was going to be required - partly because AE was even more detailed than it's predecessor.
You're in a deep hole. Stop digging.
Perhaps you and mdiehl should actually read the product page for AE. It is described as a game 5 different time, nowhere is it called a Consim. On the same page, WitP is also called a game, not a Consim.
Your only quote about AE is that it is in, in fact a
game?
The only ones with their heads in a hole, afraid to admit the truth, are you and mdiehl.