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RE: Soviet winter offensive
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:42 pm
by Peltonx
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Yeah, I have an idea about a rule change to deal with these blizzard runaways. Doesn't involve VP silliness, either. Just impose an attrition check on all heavy equipment in units moving during blizzard conditions. If you want to run, stuff is going to break down at an accelerated rate or be left behind for lack of transport. If the German runs he can save his manpower, but he's going to lose his guns and tanks -- and be in much worse shape to conduct these 1942 backhand blows.
Right now the blizzard doesn't properly reflect this logistical breakdown which was part of the reason for the standfast orders issued from Berlin. Movement came at a cost in lost equipment due to the total logistical breakdown during the first winter.
You can dish it out but can't take it
Here is will make feel all better.
RE: Soviet winter offensive
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:32 pm
by Encircled
Kamil is doing the same thing in my game v him. I suspect that he will start fighting after December
Not a problem with it, but the first thing I have to say is that my army is massively increasing in size due to having little or no combat.
200,000+ Russian troops added on T25/T26
It will certainly affect Guards production, but I'll have a sizeable force in '42, which considering his good '41, I'll settle for.
RE: Soviet winter offensive
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:18 pm
by Callistrid
T31 Overview
The german give up the full front. Of course only half of my army attack. The rest refit far from the front (150 div+, near the 1941.12.04. line, 2nd level forts). So when the light winter will come several russian division will have 3-4 CV and 50 morale.
But what I wont during my winter offensive I will lost it.
However, more three turn and when the T36 will come, I will start retreating my offensive troops.
But the good news, I have space around Moscow, and Leningrad, plus I hold now, the most difficult terrarian.
And... Kamil don't panic if you read this post
RE: Soviet winter offensive
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:29 pm
by Callistrid
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Yeah, I have an idea about a rule change to deal with these blizzard runaways. Doesn't involve VP silliness, either. Just impose an attrition check on all heavy equipment in units moving during blizzard conditions. If you want to run, stuff is going to break down at an accelerated rate or be left behind for lack of transport. If the German runs he can save his manpower, but he's going to lose his guns and tanks -- and be in much worse shape to conduct these 1942 backhand blows.
Right now the blizzard doesn't properly reflect this logistical breakdown which was part of the reason for the standfast orders issued from Berlin. Movement came at a cost in lost equipment due to the total logistical breakdown during the first winter.
That won't work! During the mud turn the german evacuate half of his pz/mor divisions, and the rest will refit on soviet cities. Only the infantry divisions move.
I belive +1 german move/hex penalty could hurt the german retreat, and force him to build a defense line. Or light 38-41 turn, when the german can't attack with full CV.
RE: Soviet winter offensive
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:42 pm
by Peltonx
Kamil can run, but you held all the major manpower centers.
Thats why you are getting so many replacements per turn.
Unless you screw up majorly, which I do not think you will based on your very good game play during 41. Kamil is toast.
I beleive he will try and turtle, but you got this one based on the numbers game now.
Play it smart and you be on offensive come early 43.
Great job.
Pelton
"March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:18 am
by Callistrid
T38 Overview
After Kamil's retreat strategy, I won several territories, what I can't hold, since no fortification, and rail lines could be found on that area. At the end of the T36 I start retreat back with the russians, but several untis had just 8 MP, so 2 step back was extreemly slow. That is why some divs had been encircled, or will be on the next turn by Kamil's forces.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:25 am
by Callistrid
T38 Leningrad, Moscow front
The Leningrad front seems to be quiet. No german motorited divisions could be found there.
Moscow is well defended, with the best soviet troops, fortifications, and heavy terrarian. The german armored spearhead try to flanking me west from Tula, and next turn Kamil will encircle some russian troops. But the fortification lines seems to be strong. My only worries are the rivers, since they are frosened, so the german won't suffer from river cross penalty.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:28 am
by Callistrid
T38 South
20+ german motorized unit operate in that area. Around T28 I start to build a deep defense line, to stop the germans. Well.... we shall see, how will work on the next 3 turn.
Kharkov, and the Donbass cities will lost next turn, just like some units will be encircled (around 6-8).
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:37 am
by Callistrid
T38
The soviet, and german casulties are low. On summer, the german forces will be arond 3,5 mill, the soviet 7,5 minus the casulties of the "March Madness".
During the winter turn 2 ger div surrender, and just 15-18 deliberate attack had been executed (most of them was succesfull).
At the end of the T24 my lost statistic was 3,4 mill, so with the T38, I lost just 300 000 men.
I have just a few guard div. Only 2 unit had been upgrated, and 0 during the winter turn.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:34 pm
by Encircled
The mass withdrawal tactic by the Germans keeps German casulties low and minimises Guard unit creation.
On the minus side, you have a huge Russian army by Feb 42
Time will tell if it is the best strategy to do
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:40 pm
by Flaviusx
The solution to the German runaways is to concentrate your cavalry in a few good spots and shove it down his throat. His infantry cannot out run it, and will not be dug in once you are past his initial fort lines. You probably will wind up flipping most of them to guards, too. Make cavalry armies, with 5 corps apiece and 4 tank brigades.
But yeah, you won't get many guards rifles out of this.
(There probable counter to this all in on cavalry? I'm thinking Bob's linebacker defense. Which is the exact opposite of a runaway and makes it difficult to get past the fort line as one will always be in preparation behind the front.)
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:14 pm
by TulliusDetritus
Isn't the "linebacker defence" a thin carpet 2 hexes deep? This is impossible to do along the whole front. The Germans don't have enough counters, I think [:)]
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:19 pm
by Flaviusx
It can be done with regimental breakdowns. It's brittle, yeah.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:25 pm
by TulliusDetritus
That's what I thought, weak regiments all over the place. Still, this means the Soviets will have zillions of easy wins all over the place. As long as you can have minimum 2-units stacks (rifle divisions or cavalry corps) at the frontline the regiments will always be trashed. Lots of guards. You stop perhaps the Soviet from grabbing a lot of land but you can't stop the massive creation of guards [:)]
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:57 pm
by Callistrid
I've created two cavalry army with 4 Cav Corps, and 6 Arm brigade. But Kamil start the retreat on the T24, and always during the blizzard turn he fallen back. I tried to catch him, and most of the succesfull hasty attack was occur that time. On January my supply lines was so far, and most of my units had 8-10 MP/turn. And it wasn't enough to do anything, when the german retreat 2-3 hex/turn.
Kamil used a 3 div stack, and 3 mot/pz on reserve defense strategy. Attack him with hasty attack was impractical, and never had 6 MP for deliberate attack (or very rarely). When I encircled a stack with cavalry, his motorized divs breaks the line, hit my cav-s hard.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:01 pm
by Flaviusx
Don't attack those 3 stacks. Bypass and zoc them. He doesn't have a continuous line.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:09 pm
by Encircled
Not that easy when you are pushing your units to make sure you maintain contact.
Panzers and Motorised in towns and cities still have a punch, and its hard to ZOC with exhausted units
I'm guessing he is using every plane he has on air supply to keep his movement rate up so he can pull back.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:19 pm
by Flaviusx
If he stacks his cavalry corps, they won't be easily shifted -- and maybe throw in some mountain troops in there for good measure. The key is to get behind those stacks and lock them down, and then the follow on rifle forces can handle them.
RE: "March madness"
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:30 pm
by Callistrid
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
If he stacks his cavalry corps, they won't be easily shifted -- and maybe throw in some mountain troops in there for good measure. The key is to get behind those stacks and lock them down, and then the follow on rifle forces can handle them.
Not if the german mountain div (15 CV), 3 mot div, and 3 infantry div hit your Cavalry stack. And after a major hit, those cavalry will not recover their CV.
"March madness"
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:07 pm
by Callistrid
T39 Moskow-Bryansk front
This front is secured. Difficult terrarian + level 2 fort could... what else I need here???
So german spearhead seems to be slowed. I've start a counterattack near smolenk, pushing back the germans, plus reinforce the frontline. 6 succesfull deliberate attack had occur, weaking the germans.
