Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

He's cheating while playing as the Allies? What? All the material and technological advantages that accumulate over time aren't already enough?

He sortof turned himself into a legend in the forum mention above. Even with Ironman PBEM, where Japan has more CVs to count on day one, he forced Japan into capitulation within a few months. Everyone else was - of course - impressed by this.

ORIGINAL: seille

Steven,

Keep cool. You´ve probably read Gudi1979s thread in the german forum. We´re discussing that thing the whole afternoon.
I looked at the save-files and they are indeed VERY strange, but i´m not experienced enough with AE and especially with the allied side.
Already asked a more experienced player for help. He might look at the allied side and tell me what he thinks.

Some things made me really wonder (early november 1942), especially:

1. 24 allied air units with 90xp, most of them did not even see combat
2. he has HUNDREDs of 90exp pilots, many of them without kills or even flown missions..as far as i know pure training can´t do that
3. Lots of ground units with 99exp and 99 morale (many of them chinese). Counted 35 active units with these stats

I really hope we can figure out whats going on there.

lol, all three points are impossible to reach, either this was modded right from the start or someone figured out how to change a save, which wouldn't surprise me either nowadays

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

I guess it's my FAULT for not taking notice....I just didn't think a player would go to such lengths to cheat...What's the FUN in the game if you change how powerful your troops are just to win the game...It's not a game then it's just a computer screen with events taking place and you already know the outcome...No fun in that kind of game

please tell me this Roy guy isn't also an active member on the forum here... [8|]

Hello

Interessting ist for pilots that they often have a value from exactly90..and not 91 or 89. So no variance at all...If he abuse the engine I would expect some kind of variance.

But thats speculating...hopefully the devs will find some aspects...



Omat

P.S.: Thank you very much floydg and n01487477 for witptracker...this tool is so useful...

ORIGINAL: n01487477

This seems to go beyond a bug in the editor or loophole in the code. This seems to be a manipulation of the savefile through (actually - I shouldn't say)...

As someone who has worked in IT & helped code Tracker & Tracker AE - I can only reiterate JWilkerson. AE is much more protected than witp, but no system is impregnable.

So, it isn't impossible, but I would imagine very very rare for players here to be doing this. I trust my fellow players here and will continue to do so. Don't look for "cheats under the bed" in every bad result and good play by him/her.

yeah, this has nothing to do with an exploit or bugs, just too many different cheats in different areas to come up with the explanation that he found a hole somewhere. This guy is a serious a$$hole obviously. I'm used to all those kiddies using all kinds of cheats in those mainstream games, but experiencing this here is pretty much what a poor little dork

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

He's cheating while playing as the Allies? What? All the material and technological advantages that accumulate over time aren't already enough?

He sortof turned himself into a legend in the forum mention above. Even with Ironman PBEM, where Japan has more CVs to count on day one, he forced Japan into capitulation within a month. Everyone else was - of course - impressed by this.

but weren't those victories too surprising when ppl were experiencing them again and again and again. We are not talking about a strategic genius, he must have whiped the floor with his enemies on a tactical level with air and groundwar going absolutely crazy?

And the worst thing, a dork like this can just change his name on the forum and continue with his BS.

Do we also have something related to him on our forum? Hopefully not

Personally very intrested to hear who is this guy or what his nickname around here!

Disgusted to hear such players exist!

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

I guess it's my FAULT for not taking notice....I just didn't think a player would go to such lengths to cheat...What's the FUN in the game if you change how powerful your troops are just to win the game...It's not a game then it's just a computer screen with events taking place and you already know the outcome...No fun in that kind of game

please tell me this Roy guy isn't also an active member on the forum here... [8|]

He is, I've seen him once in witp times. Though I don't know how active he is. His account is something with "roy"

Hello

Very likely this guy "roy2008"

showprofile.asp?memid=30274

Look at the Signature and compare it with the from:


http://www.si-games.com/forums/showthre ... 14&page=12
wit roy1909

Omat

ORIGINAL: Historiker

He is, I've seen him once in witp times. Though I don't know how active he is. His account is something with "roy"

sorry are me personel Translater is to work.*G*
I hope any other german nativ speaker can translate ist .


ALso ich denke ich konnte das Problem schonmal eingrenzen.
Es muss mit dem ziehe von Piloten aus dem Replacment Pool zutun haben.
Denn folgender Sachverhalt liegt zugrunde:
Sein pool ist voll mit tausendne von unausgebildeten Piloten.
was mir sagt er hat die Piloten erst entfernt und dann hat er neue gezogen aus einem der Pool´s .
Die Werte der Nachgezogenen Piloten sind nicht immer genau 90 mal auch 89 oder 91 .
Darauf komme ich weil diese Mechanik ja im Spiel zugrunde liegt.
der japse bekommt über die Jahre schlechtere Piloten der Ally immer bessere Piloten.
Heißt es mann kann es auf den Replacment Pool begrenzen denn dort ist diese Mechanik verknüpft.
JEtzt ist nur die frage wie hat er das erreicht das er 90/90 ziehen kann.
Da bin ich gerade dran , seine aussage ich habe nur die game engine benutzt läßt mich vermuten er hat entweder einen exploit innerhalb des Spiel gefunden oder ober das editor tool missbraucht.
Egal wie es ist und bleibt eine Moralische Sauerei und ist Betrug am spielpartner.
das mit den Boden einheiten erklärt sich dadurch auch net.
Was aber beim genauen hinschauen auch noch aufgefallen ist.
er hat viel zuviel nachschub zum beispiel in china weit über 200.000 tonnen.
aber setzt nur 2 staffeln zum transport aus indien ein.
da liegt also auch noch was im argen.
Hier konnte ich es zumindest soweit eingrenzen das man sagen kann es muss jederzeit überall abrufbar sein denn er hat es bisher nur da gemacht wo er unter druck lag.
Also das mit den Bodentruppen.

Ach ganz wichtig es muss auch auf japanischer seite reproduzierbar sein .
Und zwar alle drei sachen,Nachschub, Piloten und bodentruppen.
Ich bekomm den Betrüger schon lasst mir nur noch ein wenig zeit *howgh*

An "interesting" example from his ironman game:

12. Dezember 1941

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 184

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 8
P-40B Warhawk x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed

ORIGINAL: Banzan

An "interesting" example from his ironman game:

12. Dezember 1941

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 184

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 8
P-40B Warhawk x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed

[:D]

Still reading, but at march 6th, he destroyed already 2397 japanese planes with only 825 allied losses. If he would play with the ironman bonus that would be ok, but against? [:D]

I just checked the "score card" in my game with THINZ2, judging by the results I may be cheating in reverse![:D]

I have no idea how witp is protected, but my first guess was ram editing, not modifing the savegame. But after seeing some of the screens i am not sure anymore, i guess he did more then just that. The 90 exp group pilots looked like game created pilots (mixed skills).
His opponent is trying to analyse the savegames. Only thing he noticed by now is the sheer amount of thousends of untrained pilots in the pools, like he removed all his unexperienced pilots and got the elite onces as replacment. Maybe he found a way to change the base exp of replacments pilots to 90.

ORIGINAL: n01487477

This seems to go beyond a bug in the editor or loophole in the code. This seems to be a manipulation of the savefile through (actually - I shouldn't say)...

As someone who has worked in IT & helped code Tracker & Tracker AE - I can only reiterate JWilkerson. AE is much more protected than witp, but no system is impregnable.

I am no great coder or a hacker of any sort, but are people focusing too much on the save file? Since the game has a H-to-H mode already and the 'odd' stats seem to focus on only a few areas such as pilot experience and Chinese supply and experience, could the EXE have been cracked and H-to-H turns put on auto-loop for only the Allied side, then the date rolled back and the turn sent to the Japanese player? Or, only certain algorithms in the EXE pulled out and isolated for looping? I know the source code is normally needed for this, but I also seen extraordinary modding going on all over the gaming world with object-oriented languages where the modders only have knowledge of variable input hooks for the methods.

ORIGINAL: michaelm

..but made use of the game engine.

If there is indeed an exploit within the game that can manipulate the mentioned data, and it can be identified, I can try to fix it. But I can't if I don't know there is one.

I don't know if it would be helpful, but some of the savegame files from my game with Roy are on this thread:

tm.asp?m=3047690

I did not notice any of the uber pilots mentioned in the German forum, but in particular combat reports showed the 9th and 11th Indian divisions suffering heavy destroyed/disabled squads in Malaya combat. Then animations show them at full strength in Singapore kicking my ass. I thought it was FOW and the combat reports were worthless. In China he has strong Chinese troops everywhere. I thought surely some area is stripped bare, but I could not find it. Allied players always complain they have no supplies in China, but he was on the offensive.

As far as getting a player one can trust, Roy is well known on the German forum and I thought I was fortunate to get him as an opponent. He has not denied getting the results others have accused, he claims he has not cheated and any player can accomplish this.

Evidently the save file is encrypted but what about modification of files during turn building (i.e., when the player is entering orders)?

Then there is the Tron angle too.

I can srt of see the "fun" of hacking, but to then inflict that on another player in order to inflate one's reputation is just pitifully pathological.

I guarantee the guy has a gherkin.

ORIGINAL: sandmann

sorry are me personel Translater is to work.*G*
I hope any other german nativ speaker can translate ist .

Not easy to do, his post is not made in great german (too much adrenalin i guess) [;)]

I'll try my best, but i havn't translated any text in years, so please forgive me if i make too many errors [:D]



ALso ich denke ich konnte das Problem schonmal eingrenzen.
I think i could isolate the problem.

Es muss mit dem ziehe von Piloten aus dem Replacment Pool zutun haben.
It has something to do with pulling replacement pilots from the pools.

Denn folgender Sachverhalt liegt zugrunde:
Because the following facts are avaible.

Sein pool ist voll mit tausendne von unausgebildeten Piloten.
His pools are filled with thousends of untrained pilots.

was mir sagt er hat die Piloten erst entfernt und dann hat er neue gezogen aus einem der Pool´s .
What told me, he removed all pilots and pulled new pilots from one of the pools.

Die Werte der Nachgezogenen Piloten sind nicht immer genau 90 mal auch 89 oder 91 .
The stats of the pulled pilots are not allways 90, sometimes its 89 or 91.

Darauf komme ich weil diese Mechanik ja im Spiel zugrunde liegt.
I think of this because this is part is part of the game mechanic.

der japse bekommt über die Jahre schlechtere Piloten der Ally immer bessere Piloten.
The japanes (replacment) pilots get more and more bad over the years while the allied (replacment) pilots get better.

Heißt es mann kann es auf den Replacment Pool begrenzen denn dort ist diese Mechanik verknüpft.
Means, its could be isolated to the replacment pools as the mechanic is found there.

JEtzt ist nur die frage wie hat er das erreicht das er 90/90 ziehen kann.
The question is, what did he do to be able to pull the 90/90 pilots.

Da bin ich gerade dran , seine aussage ich habe nur die game engine benutzt läßt mich vermuten er hat entweder einen exploit innerhalb des Spiel gefunden oder ober das editor tool missbraucht.
I'm working on that now. His statement he only used the game engine make me guess he either found an exploit ingame or he abused the editor.

Egal wie es ist und bleibt eine Moralische Sauerei und ist Betrug am spielpartner.
No matter how, its a morally bad thing and a betray of your gameing partner.

das mit den Boden einheiten erklärt sich dadurch auch net.
But it doesn't explain the LCUs.

Was aber beim genauen hinschauen auch noch aufgefallen ist.
Something else i noticed while looking at it.

er hat viel zuviel nachschub zum beispiel in china weit über 200.000 tonnen.
He got too much supply, for expample in china more then 200k.

aber setzt nur 2 staffeln zum transport aus indien ein.
But he only uses two transport groups from india.

da liegt also auch noch was im argen.
There is something wrong, too.

Hier konnte ich es zumindest soweit eingrenzen das man sagen kann es muss jederzeit überall abrufbar sein denn er hat es bisher nur da gemacht wo er unter druck lag. Also das mit den Bodentruppen.
Here i noticed, that it must be possible to use it anywhere and anytimes. He only did it, where he got under pressure. I mean that about the LCUs.

Ach ganz wichtig es muss auch auf japanischer seite reproduzierbar sein .
Oh, and very important, it must be usable as the japanese, too.

Und zwar alle drei sachen,Nachschub, Piloten und bodentruppen.
With all three things, supplies, pilots and LCUs.

Ich bekomm den Betrüger schon lasst mir nur noch ein wenig zeit *howgh*
I'll get the cheater, just give me more time.

Right..so you have replacement pilots, LCU experience and TO&E strength and supply.

If he was somewhow able to eliminate MacArthur from the Allied commander database then, I'm afraid, it's all over for the JFB's