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RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:42 pm
by jmalter
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?
in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:52 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: jmalter
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?
in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.
You never get enough of them for sustained combat ops.
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:59 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: jmalter
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
How come the Allies never had a long-legged land based torpedo bomber? No need with their carrier striking power?
in the game, you can use torp-equipped PBYs to devastating effect. rng=14 or better, later models have drop-tanks & search radar. ntm they carry 2 Mk13 torps.
In games involving a PH strike with an effective anti-airfield strike, PBYs typically are hit very hard, as IRL. Replacements are scant, so it takes a long time to offset normal OPs losses with the few amphibious PBYs that come out.
You CAN marshall them together and try a torpedo strike, but woe unto the Allied player that attacks a CAP'ed TF at sea in such circumstances. They'll get shredded and now you're out a whole ****load of naval search aircraft for many months.
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:22 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
What about the Med?
Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.
The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)
Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.
mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:07 pm
by Commander Stormwolf
if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:43 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty
Naw.....it'd be a B-25! [:D]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:45 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
What about the Med?
Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.
The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)
Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.
mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)
This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:46 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
What about the Med?
Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.
The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)
Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.
mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)
This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?
Like the Torbeau? [:D]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:47 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty
Naw.....it'd be a B-25! [:D]
NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid! [:@]
[:'(]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:47 pm
by AW1Steve
Many in the USA felt that mediums could carry torpedos. As in the case of the 4 B-26's at Midway , that had two each. [:)] I see no reason that a B-25 could carry one.[:)]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:48 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
if billy mitchell were to design a plane, it would probably be a betty
Naw.....it'd be a B-25! [:D]
NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid! [:@]
[:'(]
And what's the name of a B-25? [:D]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:49 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Again.....finances. The Med was the most important non-home watered theater but the interwar period saw the purse strings at their tightest. Just prior to 1940 when Italy began it's first offensive there was but a single Hurricane located in Egypt to compliment a scratch force of obsolete planes scattered throughout Africa. This included Wellesleys, Vincents, Valentias, Furys and Hartbeestes. Malta started off with a fighter force of 3 Gladiators.
The RN was the principle defender of the Med and they had their CV's. The Italian battlefleet was small but modernizing with the laying down of the Littorios, but England could match them with existing BB's as long as they didnt' get too stretched (which they did)
Air resources were allocated (in general) with Home Islands first priority followed by all the other theaters....this continued even well after the war started. Thats why it took so long to get Spits abroad much less modern bombers. The UK had to supliment with purchased US designs like the Maryland and Hudson.
mulla mulla. The dicatorships could afford to spend a larger bulk of their capita on military projects (though in Germany's case not as much as previously thought)
This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?
Like the Torbeau? [:D]
Beaufighter TB variant? That was well into the war, no?
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:52 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Naw.....it'd be a B-25! [:D]
NO YOURE WRONG!!!!!! It'd be a B1. If you dont agree, you're stoopid! [:@]
[:'(]
And what's the name of a B-25? [:D]
Named for Yvonne Mitchell...
And rightly so. [:D]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:54 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
This is all true. Still, it strikes me as odd that there was no interest at all in developing a land-based TB. The Brits were generally very innovative and ready to try new things. Why not a TB?
Like the Torbeau? [:D]
Beaufighter TB variant? That was well into the war, no?
May 1943. It was the nickname for the Beaufighter MK X which could carry a torpedo.
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:56 pm
by AW1Steve
Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it. [X(]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:59 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
May 1943. It was the nickname for the Beaufighter MK X which could carry a torpedo.
Yes, I did have to google it but it came back to me as soon as I saw the picture. [:D]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:01 pm
by AW1Steve
That would be an interesting ability to use PBJ's as torpedo bombers. But with skip bombing and solid noses would you even need them? [&:]
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:05 pm
by AW1Steve
The 38th BG flew B-26's armed with torpedos. They were the ones at Midway. And supposedly there were 2 squadrons in the Aleutians with torpedo's.
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:05 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Chezdajez did some research arguing against torpedo armed B-25's in the game, but I find that the B-25a could be fitted with a shackle that allowed torpedo use. Then again , the Navy tested a version for CV use, but decided against it. [X(]
Youre adding to my argument. [:D] So (unlike me) someone put in the time to do the research and discovered that the US did test the possibility, found that it was possible and decided not to go ahead with it. I can totally understand not wanting to deal with CV-born Mitchells but those G variants with all them guns in the nose that were specifically built to attack Japanese shipping...doesnt that sound like the perfect place to use a torpedo bomber?
RE: Allied CVs, early wwar
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:37 pm
by pharmy
When the attack skip bomber concept was put into effect by a USAAF outfit (5th airforce)they decided that a bomb would be a better bargain. Couple of reasons I could think of, Navy not having good torpedoes, navy not giving over torpedoes to MacArthur, shallow draft of vessels being attacked, thin armor of ships in that area, pilot needing to concentrate more on torpedo run, having to fly slower, shallow waters as generally heavy bombers did port strikes, etc... The Soviets used A-20 Havoc teams, one solid nose for AA suppression, one armed with a torpedo. I'm downloading a couple of hundred Osprey books, here is a preview from one of them.
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=AYR_ ... do&f=false Seems like the Marines could do them but said no thank you. But again, most of them faced thin skinned shallow draft coastal vessels. I think some of the early Venturas could release torpedoes, but not sure of that
Google torrent Osprey world history series - i didnt check if this book is amongst them. I do spend 300-400 USD on books per month on Amazon (half for shipping to India), so I dont feel so guilty getting this in torrent.