Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


And that's the reason we ask the question.....because there is an answer that's better than "Who knows?" So let them answer the question.

As for the post above about the appearance to the casual gamer......you mean the way it appears to the majority of gamers......as in all of them who don't frequent this forum regularly.

you would think most would realize that if you only get the people who frequent this forum to buy the game,...the game will be a huge financial failure...so you might want to have an answer for those "other" gamers.

Actually i said the casual observer, and what I meant is that I can see very easily why people have a "WTF" moment when they see the price hasnt changed. I wasnt trying to draw a distinction between casual gamers and hardcore gamers, if that is what you were thinking. Overall, I don't fault people in the least for reacting, at least at the beginning, with a ?. Its definitely odd. But the fact that its still a good price and the fact, that most likely, there some constraints Matrix has on the pricing of the game (like if its too low it will eat into the actual board-game sales) I just dont see it as an issue to get too worked up about.

If they did lower it would I have a "WTF" moment and complain, because I paid more for books that I didnt necessarily want? Nope. The game has been worth the price, and I would have felt fine paying $99 for it without the books.

To quote Ian from another thread:

1) Follow a business plan based on 13 years of running a successful company and over 20 years in the games industry.
2) Follow a business plan based on what a journalist and our fans (none of whom to my knowledge have ever made a game or run computer game publisher) suggest because we don't have the guts to follow our beliefs.

Maybe JD et al should do some reading? tm.asp?m=3308906&mpage=1&key=tim%2Cstone

tm.asp?m=3312181&mpage=1&key=?

ORIGINAL: markb50k

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR


And that's the reason we ask the question.....because there is an answer that's better than "Who knows?" So let them answer the question.

As for the post above about the appearance to the casual gamer......you mean the way it appears to the majority of gamers......as in all of them who don't frequent this forum regularly.

you would think most would realize that if you only get the people who frequent this forum to buy the game,...the game will be a huge financial failure...so you might want to have an answer for those "other" gamers.

Actually i said the casual observer, and what I meant is that I can see very easily why people have a "WTF" moment when they see the price hasnt changed. I wasnt trying to draw a distinction between casual gamers and hardcore gamers, if that is what you were thinking. Overall, I don't fault people in the least for reacting, at least at the beginning, with a ?. Its definitely odd. But the fact that its still a good price and the fact, that most likely, there some constraints Matrix has on the pricing of the game (like if its too low it will eat into the actual board-game sales) I just dont see it as an issue to get too worked up about.

If they did lower it would I have a "WTF" moment and complain, because I paid more for books that I didnt necessarily want? Nope. The game has been worth the price, and I would have felt fine paying $99 for it without the books.

My mistake on the casual thing,...it indeed was what I was thinking.

My point is this game has to have a larger market audience than those few here on the forums.......those that now the whole story behind the pricing so far. So there will be a lot of people (hopefully) that will want to know why the download "no books" version costs the same as the physical "books included" version. Especially given the high quality of the books,.... they have to be a good chunk of the games cost.

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

To quote Ian from another thread:

1) Follow a business plan based on 13 years of running a successful company and over 20 years in the games industry.
2) Follow a business plan based on what a journalist and our fans (none of whom to my knowledge have ever made a game or run computer game publisher) suggest because we don't have the guts to follow our beliefs.

Maybe JD et al should do some reading? tm.asp?m=3308906&mpage=1&key=tim%2Cstone

That just makes the question more relevant. We aren't asking why they are doing it the same as always. Just the opposite. Why are they doing it differently?

Which is a contradiction to your quote.

The books are most probably printed in China. Compared to the time creating the content the printing costs are a small factor. Postal charges and customs for outside US shipments is more expensive than the printcosts of the books I would say.

Matrix listened to their customers - and I saw a few who bought because of that. I hope all is said and done about this decision. There are a couple of good posts explaining the situation to newcomers - maybe they can be kept and put high on the stickylist so that this discussion will not erupt from time to time.

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

Compared to the time creating the content the printing costs are a small factor. Postal charges and customs for outside US shipments is more expensive than the printcosts of the books I would say.

In another thread about game prices,....a matrix employee listed the time it takes to develop a game as one of the factors in its cost........I made a joke....that WIF had been in development for so long it would probably cost around $100 when it finally released. It was a joke,...but sadly it was on us.

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

Compared to the time creating the content the printing costs are a small factor. Postal charges and customs for outside US shipments is more expensive than the printcosts of the books I would say.

In another thread about game prices,....a matrix employee listed the time it takes to develop a game as one of the factors in its cost........I made a joke....that WIF had been in development for so long it would probably cost around $100 when it finally released. It was a joke,...but sadly it was on us.

warspite1

No its not [&:] For those of us that desperately want the game (as it represents the only realistic chance of ever playing WIF again) how can the joke be on us??

The game is out, its available for purchase - thank goodness, or more pertinently, thank Matrix and above all, to Steve. Why is the joke on us? The game is what it is, and thus cost to develop what it cost. How about being thankful its here rather than moaning constantly about the cost, the marketing strategy etc etc??

$100 for a game that doesn't have online multiplayer OR an AI..................yeah that's a pretty big joke.

But its really a matter of opinon. I am guessing the game isn't exactly flying off the shelf......I'll let you draw your own conclusion from that.

EDIT-I could be mistaken,...is netplay still not working right?

So instead of waiting for having the perfect game in 2 years (PBEM, AI, ...), they decided to release it now. And some of you would prefer they have waited a bit more.

So?

1) If you are like those who wanted it now: buy it now.
2) If you are like those who wanted them to wait until AI & PBEM was ready: wait until they are ready.

Shouldn't everybody be happy?

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

So instead of waiting for having the perfect game in 2 years (PBEM, AI, ...), they decided to release it now. And some of you would prefer they have waited a bit more.

So?

1) If you are like those who wanted it now: buy it now.
2) If you are like those who wanted them to wait until AI & PBEM was ready: wait until they are ready.

Shouldn't everybody be happy?

I would have no issue with that,...but I would expect to pay accordingly. Part of the game delivered should equal part of the price....not the highest price ever at Matrix.

Time for a different take on this. Sometime I get so focused on the point I am making that context gets lost....losing sight of the forest paying too much attention to one tree so to say.

First let me say.....for those that have been waiting years for this game and would buy it almost at any price....congrats you got your wish. I am happy for you. I actually mean that.

To be completely fair Matrix did exactly what they said........they made it so you could order the game and opt to not have the books shipped. They never said it would be any cheaper. In fact they never promised anything,...so just the option we have now is something they should be commended for. Nobody is complaining about that, no matter how much certain individuals want to try and turn it in to that.

The question being asked is why the download only version costs as much as the physical version when almost every other game sold by Matrix has the download only version costing $10 less than physical, especially when the physical version of this game has far more than the average physical version(3 hardbound books)?

The question being asked has been answered multiple times.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The question being asked has been answered multiple times.

Please post a link.

tm.asp?m=3521650&mpage=2&key=

Post #33

I see no answer from Matrix there at all. I see your opinion,....about an unrelated matter at that,....but since you don't work for Matrix that's useless.

Matrix needs to answer that they've done exactly what they said they'd do? To some troll that's been plaguing the forum for 36 hours now, who won't buy the game because it's unfinished and and has no AI, and can't afford it to start with?

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Matrix needs to answer that they've done exactly what they said they'd do? To some troll that's been plaguing the forum for 36 hours now, who won't buy the game because it's unfinished and and has no AI, and can't afford it to start with?

Wow,...thick skulled huh?

No, they need to answer the question being asked.

What exactly is your objection to the question being asked? Unless you work for Matrix you cant answer the question,....and having a fit a stomping your foot that someone would dare ask a question isn't going to make the big bad question go away. So what exactly do you hope to accomplish here?

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Matrix needs to answer that they've done exactly what they said they'd do? To some troll that's been plaguing the forum for 36 hours now, who won't buy the game because it's unfinished and and has no AI, and can't afford it to start with?

And they are not *required* to answer it either.

People wanted a d/l only option. Matrix provided a d/l only option.

And what do they get, the same nonsense from people who think they know better. Claims that MG/S is wrong. That they don't know what they're doing.

I certainly can't spreak for Matrix, but here is my take anyway [:)]

Here is a quote from Erik from another thread

Hi everyone, the decision to go with a physical only release was made a while ago and the rationale was explained in my earlier posts. We honestly feel the hardbound manuals are a key part of the game - adding them in actually decreases our margin per copy as we did not increase the planned price once we made the decision to print the manuals at this quality level, but we feel that they are necessary to the game. We tried to get the shipping costs down as much as possible, but until our European warehouse re-opens, we were unable to get them down further outside the US given the weight and size of the package. We were not happy with the shipping costs either. The only option I can offer right now is to wait until later in Q1 2014 when the European warehouse opens as that should reduce shipping costs to Europe and remove the risk of a customs duty. Per the announcement we posted, our best guess on that is February/March.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 11/8/2013 9:20:03 AM >


So, Erik is stating the price was $100 before they added the manuals so removing them is still $100.

As for the physical versus download option and the $10 difference on all other games, I'll give you that one....however at $110 versus $100, it really isn't that big of an issue.

ORIGINAL: Challerain

I certainly can't spreak for Matrix, but here is my take anyway [:)]

Here is a quote from Erik from another thread

Hi everyone, the decision to go with a physical only release was made a while ago and the rationale was explained in my earlier posts. We honestly feel the hardbound manuals are a key part of the game - adding them in actually decreases our margin per copy as we did not increase the planned price once we made the decision to print the manuals at this quality level, but we feel that they are necessary to the game. We tried to get the shipping costs down as much as possible, but until our European warehouse re-opens, we were unable to get them down further outside the US given the weight and size of the package. We were not happy with the shipping costs either. The only option I can offer right now is to wait until later in Q1 2014 when the European warehouse opens as that should reduce shipping costs to Europe and remove the risk of a customs duty. Per the announcement we posted, our best guess on that is February/March.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 11/8/2013 9:20:03 AM >


So, Erik is stating the price was $100 before they added the manuals so removing them is still $100.

As for the physical versus download option and the $10 difference on all other games, I'll give you that one....however at $110 versus $100, it really isn't that big of an issue.

Thank you. I remember that post just not where it was. I find it hard to believe that the books don't factor into the cost of the game,...but I find it harder to believe that Erik would deceive us, so if that's the case then I guess that's the way it is...but I must ask....if $10 is not a big deal........then why change their policy over it?