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RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:45 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
HMS Hindustan
King Edward VII-class pre-dreadnought
I have never been much interested in pre-dreadnoughts so I would never have gotten the ship. But is that young officer Winston or Albert of Windsor - the future King George VI (I forget what the family's Germanic name was before it was changed to Windsor during WWI). The face also reminds me of Beatty, the commander of the largest group of British battlecruisers at Jutland.
The House of Hanover. Beatty had all the BCs. If you're referring to the Queen Elizabeths, they were BBs.
The Queen Elizabeth's were FAST battleships. So fast that they were attached to the Battle cruisers.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:46 am
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I have never been much interested in pre-dreadnoughts so I would never have gotten the ship. But is that young officer Winston or Albert of Windsor - the future King George VI (I forget what the family's Germanic name was before it was changed to Windsor during WWI). The face also reminds me of Beatty, the commander of the largest group of British battlecruisers at Jutland.
The House of Hanover. Beatty had all the BCs. If you're referring to the Queen Elizabeths, they were BBs.
The Queen Elizabeth's were FAST battleships. So fast that they were attached to the Battle cruisers.
They weren't fast enough, were they? Battle was pretty much over when they arrived, and the Boche didn't want to have any battle at all, really. Still, they got the better of it.
I love the QEIs, they were almost WWII ready. Fabulous ships.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:15 am
by wdolson
ORIGINAL: bomccarthy
Growing up in the Whittier hills with a whole string of outdoor cats (we would lose them to coyotes on a fairly regular basis), mockingbirds were pests. They would dive-bomb our cats while we were standing a foot away. A couple of our cats were decent hunters and could occasionally catch a mockingbird as s/he pulled out of the dive, but most tried to run and hide.
Coyotes have pretty much overrun most of Southern California in the past 15 years, even heavily populated areas. I nearly ran one over in the middle of the day on a residential street in San Marino. Tired of trash strewn all over the yard, my brother-in-law nailed one with an arrow in Whittier on a recent night; my sister made him clean up the blood (which trailed to a neighbors front yard) before anyone noticed. They couldn't find the body and it hasn't deterred any other coyotes.
Sounds like you have lived in my old neck of the woods most of your life. I grew up in Monterey Park. When I was a teenager I used to take drives around San Marino when I wanted to get away from my crazy mother.
We used to go out to Whittier to go to the Kodak warehouse all the time. My father was a professional photographer and sold supplies as a side business to other professional photographers. Kodak would deliver, but when he had a rush order we would have to go out to the warehouse and pick it up.
I didn't realize coyotes had become such a problem. They were rare when I was growing up. There was a flock of wild parrots in the neighborhood (escaped from an overturned exotic animals truck on the Pomona Freeway) and some massive lizards (up to three feet long), but the rest of the wildlife was pretty small.
Bill
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:08 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
The House of Hanover. Beatty had all the BCs. If you're referring to the Queen Elizabeths, they were BBs.
The Queen Elizabeth's were FAST battleships. So fast that they were attached to the Battle cruisers.
They weren't fast enough, were they? Battle was pretty much over when they arrived, and the Boche didn't want to have any battle at all, really. Still, they got the better of it.
I love the QEIs, they were almost WWII ready. Fabulous ships.
Sorry guys, but the books I have read on Jutland all say that the Fifth Battle Squadron (QE BBs) arrived from the northwest just as Beatty's BCs ran into the main High Seas fleet and had to turn around and retreat toward the Grand Fleet to the north. Then Admiral Hood's BC squadron leading the Grand Fleet came down from the north to join the battle whilst Jellicoe deployed the Grand Fleet in a great arc, crossing the "T" on the High Seas Fleet. So the QEs and Hood's BCs were NOT part of Beatty's squadron of BCs.
Of course none of this helps identify the fresh-faced officer cornered by the mad dog ...
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:14 pm
by geofflambert
Bill, are you telling us you inherited your moderator talents from your mother? [:'(]
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:16 pm
by geofflambert
BBfanboy, that would be the future king Edward VIII.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:22 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: RichMunn
Wales had a very good Baseball team, which often beat England (as it happens) in front of big crowds. Possibly an omen for the European Championships!
Not a patch on cricket, of course.....
[:D] [;)]
warspite1
What!? Baseball! In the UK! Whatever next? Fetch me my angry trousers - I'm madder than I've ever been [:@]
Re the football, I lay good money that Wales will beat England - especially if Rooney starts....
It would be great to see both qualify (and Northern Ireland) and for Gareth Bale to have a fantastic tournament.
Was this a late April fools'? Rooney can not possibly be considered to play for the National Team?!
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:23 pm
by BBfanboy
Well I came close, naming his brother Albert ("Bertie") instead of Eddie. Didn't know Eddie #8 did time in the navy, but I guess George V would have insisted on it!
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:24 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: RichMunn
Wales had a very good Baseball team, which often beat England (as it happens) in front of big crowds. Possibly an omen for the European Championships!
Not a patch on cricket, of course.....
[:D] [;)]
warspite1
What!? Baseball! In the UK! Whatever next? Fetch me my angry trousers - I'm madder than I've ever been [:@]
Re the football, I lay good money that Wales will beat England - especially if Rooney starts....
It would be great to see both qualify (and Northern Ireland) and for Gareth Bale to have a fantastic tournament.
Was this a late April fools'? Rooney can not possibly be considered to play for the National Team?!
What does Mickey Rooney have to do with football?
Or Mara Rooney for that matter? [;)]
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:32 pm
by warspite1
The House of Hanover.
No – the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha – Edit: ah I see Zorch beat me to it
Beatty had all the BCs.
No he didn’t. The 3rd BCS was with Jellicoe and the 5th BS was with Beatty - therein lies a whole can of worms....
They weren't fast enough, were they? Battle was pretty much over when they arrived, and the Boche didn't want to have any battle at all, really.
No they were not as fast as designed and not as fast as the BC’s - but they were not designed to be as fast as the BC's.
No the battle was far from over when they arrived
No also not true – the Germans most definitely wanted a battle - that is why they were at sea. They didn't want a battle with the whole Grand Fleet - but during the opening phase they weren't aware the GF was in the vicinity.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:45 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I have never been much interested in pre-dreadnoughts so I would never have gotten the ship. But is that young officer Winston or Albert of Windsor - the future King George VI (I forget what the family's Germanic name was before it was changed to Windsor during WWI). The face also reminds me of Beatty, the commander of the largest group of British battlecruisers at Jutland.
The House of Hanover. Beatty had all the BCs. If you're referring to the Queen Elizabeths, they were BBs.
The Queen Elizabeth's were FAST battleships. So fast that they were attached to the Battle cruisers.
warspite1
That wasn't the reason they were attached. It was a temporary expedient because the BC's were in dire need of gunnery practice (which they could not get in Rosyth). The 3rd BCS thus transferred to the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow to allow this and Beatty got the 5th BS to fill the gap.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:49 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: RichMunn
Wales had a very good Baseball team, which often beat England (as it happens) in front of big crowds. Possibly an omen for the European Championships!
Not a patch on cricket, of course.....
[:D] [;)]
warspite1
What!? Baseball! In the UK! Whatever next? Fetch me my angry trousers - I'm madder than I've ever been [:@]
Re the football, I lay good money that Wales will beat England - especially if Rooney starts....
It would be great to see both qualify (and Northern Ireland) and for Gareth Bale to have a fantastic tournament.
Was this a late April fools'? Rooney can not possibly be considered to play for the National Team?!
warspite1
Hodgson has said he is still his main man....
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:04 pm
by geofflambert
Are you saying he's Hodgson's choice?
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:13 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Are you saying he's Hodgson's choice?
warspite1
No not at all. Roy Hodgson's missus calls the shots and she's called Sophie. So its kind of
Sophie's Choice.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:19 pm
by geofflambert
Who gets killed?
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:22 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
The Queen Elizabeth's were FAST battleships. So fast that they were attached to the Battle cruisers.
They weren't fast enough, were they? Battle was pretty much over when they arrived, and the Boche didn't want to have any battle at all, really. Still, they got the better of it.
I love the QEIs, they were almost WWII ready. Fabulous ships.
Sorry guys, but the books I have read on Jutland all say that the Fifth Battle Squadron (QE BBs) arrived from the northwest just as Beatty's BCs ran into the main High Seas fleet and had to turn around and retreat toward the Grand Fleet to the north. Then Admiral Hood's BC squadron leading the Grand Fleet came down from the north to join the battle whilst Jellicoe deployed the Grand Fleet in a great arc, crossing the "T" on the High Seas Fleet.
So the QEs and Hood's BCs
were NOT part of Beatty's squadron of BCs.
Of course none of this helps identify the fresh-faced officer cornered by the mad dog ...
warspite1
Sorry, not true. Hood's 3rd BCS was attached to the Grand Fleet (GF). Evan-Thomas's 5th Battle Squadron was attached to the Battlecruiser Fleet (BCF). The plan was that they would swap places when the two fleets rendezvoused,until then, the 3rd BS and the 5th BS were part of the GF and the BCF respectively. Of course the planned rendezvous didn't happen......and by the time the two fleets were re-united, three of the battlecruisers were at the bottom of the North Sea and one of the Queen Elizabeth's had taken 29 large calibre hits on her "death ride".
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:27 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Who gets killed?
warspite1
England. Not so much killed as mullered on the football pitch.
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:02 pm
by Zorch
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
They weren't fast enough, were they? Battle was pretty much over when they arrived, and the Boche didn't want to have any battle at all, really. Still, they got the better of it.
I love the QEIs, they were almost WWII ready. Fabulous ships.
Sorry guys, but the books I have read on Jutland all say that the Fifth Battle Squadron (QE BBs) arrived from the northwest just as Beatty's BCs ran into the main High Seas fleet and had to turn around and retreat toward the Grand Fleet to the north. Then Admiral Hood's BC squadron leading the Grand Fleet came down from the north to join the battle whilst Jellicoe deployed the Grand Fleet in a great arc, crossing the "T" on the High Seas Fleet.
So the QEs and Hood's BCs
were NOT part of Beatty's squadron of BCs.
Of course none of this helps identify the fresh-faced officer cornered by the mad dog ...
warspite1
Sorry, not true. Hood's 3rd BCS was attached to the Grand Fleet (GF). Evan-Thomas's 5th Battle Squadron was attached to the Battlecruiser Fleet (BCF). The plan was that they would swap places when the two fleets rendezvoused,until then, the 3rd BS and the 5th BS were part of the GF and the BCF respectively. Of course the planned rendezvous didn't happen......and by the time the two fleets were re-united, three of the battlecruisers were at the bottom of the North Sea and one of the Queen Elizabeth's had taken 29 large calibre hits on her "death ride".
Beatty did lobby to have the QEs permanently attached to his force...suppose he had the 5 QEs instead of 6 BCs when he fought Hipper?
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:05 pm
by Zorch
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1
What!? Baseball! In the UK! Whatever next? Fetch me my angry trousers - I'm madder than I've ever been [:@]
Re the football, I lay good money that Wales will beat England - especially if Rooney starts....
It would be great to see both qualify (and Northern Ireland) and for Gareth Bale to have a fantastic tournament.
Was this a late April fools'? Rooney can not possibly be considered to play for the National Team?!
What does Mickey Rooney have to do with football?
Or Mara Rooney for that matter? [;)]
I'll have you know that Ms. Mara (and her sister Kate) are the worthy descendants of the owners of 2 of the NFL's finest franchises - the New York Giants (Mara) and Pittsburgh Steelers (Rooney).
RE: OT Things to ponder
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:08 pm
by warspite1
But he DID have four of the battleships (HMS Queen Elizabeth was in the dockyard as usual). Having lobbied hard for the 5th BS, Beatty was given command of the Squadron (albeit temporarily). But that is just the start of the controversy: where did he place the squadron originally? why did he not concentrate force when the Germans were first spotted? Why did Evan-Thomas not turn the 5th BS around quicker?
Is anyone interested in a separate Jutland thread to air some of the many, many points and controversies that surround the battle?