Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Yaab

In the game, all 2Es are idle, because there is no interdiction missions for them, so you pound LCUs with them. It sucks, it is unrealistic, it is game-breaking etc. Wish 2Es could at least target those immune oil/resources or inflict friendly casualties when on CAS missions. More house-rules than clicks. Meh.

You need to be more imaginative. 2Es can do far more than bomb LCUs or not bomb LCUs. And nothing is "game breaking." Please.

2Es can attack Cities in all of those missions except mining. They can attack Ports. They can attack AFs and destroy supply. They can train pilots. They can be kamikazes.

You can HR anything you want, but slavish devotion to real life will break the balance of the game. Supplies and fuel move FAR too easily through jungle in the game. Aircraft repair is FAR too easy in the game ("Spare parts? Make them from rice balls.") Bases are taken in a destroyed state and are fully operational in a couple of days. Wounded men heal in a week. And on and on. Some aspects of the abstraction speed op tempo up, some aspects slow it down. It's a dance.

For the Allies at least, plane counts are fixed at historical numbers and that has to be factored into use. But 2Es can't be used in the CAS role to any great extent for reasons I've spoken to many times, and you mention. There are no bridges to bomb. There are no rail marshaling yards. There are weak anti-personnel weapons in the game. Bombing LCUs at whatever altitude your risk profile likes is an alternative. HR that away, and then yeah, 2Es get left on the ground more. And the balance shifts away from the design. You can do it, but be careful forcing the issue. You may not like the spin-offs.

"Ingrid Bergman? Well, she's not quite tall enough to my liking. If she'd have been just an inch or two taller, I'd have taken her out. Well, I would have if her hair color was just a shade darker. I like 'em a shade darker. And she isn't quite smart enough either. As far as I know, she isn't interested in philately, botany or lepidoptery. If she was, she'd be far more interesting and I could converse with her better. So I'll exclude her from my list of possible dates since I have a house rule that my woman must be tall, darker-haired, and avid lepidopterists. Ingrid Bergman? Meh."

You forgot the ear-wax problem.

You anglin' to swab her ears?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Ingrid Bergman? Well, she's not quite tall enough to my liking. If she'd have been just an inch or two taller, I'd have taken her out. Well, I would have if her hair color was just a shade darker. I like 'em a shade darker. And she isn't quite smart enough either. As far as I know, she isn't interested in philately, botany or lepidoptery. If she was, she'd be far more interesting and I could converse with her better. So I'll exclude her from my list of possible dates since I have a house rule that my woman must be tall, darker-haired, and avid lepidopterists. Ingrid Bergman? Meh."

My, my - just a little picky, are we? [&o]

You won't find many tall, dark, female stamp collecting biologists on this site.

Swab has a special meaning to a sailor . . .

I probably don't want to know or need to know, as it might be a disservice to the memory of the wonderful Ingrid Bergman, but I ought to make it clear that I don't know the sailor meaning of "swab" (other than the piratey-movie connotation for mopping the deck).

You have to be read-in on the secret handshake first . . .

The first rule of Fight Club ...

A good vid.

"New Guinea Campaign: Allied Air Operations Lae-Salamaua"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOlAN51fJPs

Tells of B24's attacking artillery positions. Use of mortars firing smoke shells to mark dug in positions of Jap forces for bombing by heavies.

Lots of 2 engine bomber strafing action.

"Winged Artillery - 7th AAF B25 Group"
Gilbert and Marshall Islands

Shows building of the bases and combat missions.

Shows use of the 75mm B25s.

7 of the 9 planes hit by flak, yet all returned to base. Some crash-landed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGjGJHrQxy8

Nice shots. Tks for posting!

Fred

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

A good vid.

"New Guinea Campaign: Allied Air Operations Lae-Salamaua"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOlAN51fJPs

Tells of B24's attacking artillery positions. Use of mortars firing smoke shells to mark dug in positions of Jap forces for bombing by heavies.

Lots of 2 engine bomber strafing action.

No, he says B24s bombed "gun emplacements in Chinatown". Later, Chinatown is defined as the main supply depot in Salamua. They used visual cue of the depots to bomb the guns.

And yes, at around 13:45 he mentions mortars firing smoke rounds to direct heavies to Jap positions. That is CAS, thank you.

Chinatown is defined as the main supply depot in Salamua

???

Chinatown is a suburb of Lae in the Morobe Province, Papua New Guinea


mentions art/guns twice

3:12 "artillery emplacements in Chinatown, also along the main supply trails lead to the front line".
heavies and mediums 3:51 "gun emplacements near the enemy front lines were blasted"

2 engine bombers can be seen strafing positions in the jungle. 13:19

I was at a loss when I heard him say "Chinatown". Later in the film, the narrator says that Chinatown was the main supply depot in Lae for the Japanese. Make sense for the Japs to put gun batteries there, especially the heavy ones.

heavies and mediums 3:51 "gun emplacements near the enemy front lines were blasted" ---This one is dubious. He does not say who exactly blasted the guns near the front lines - 4Es or 2Es? The raid consisted of B-26s and B-24s. Seems like B24 were tasked with levelling Chinatown and trail interdiction.

The Lae part is somewhat vague. The mortar and smoke part seems legit CAS by 4Es.

The 4Es (primarily B-24s) were used in the Pacific/SE Asia for direct battlefield support, even classic CAS missions on occasion. If you
haven't read it yet, I'd still recommend Chapter 7 of "Case studies in the development of close air support" for a summary analysis of the
use of CAS missions and their development during SW Pacific operations.

It even mentions on page 313 what sounds like the B-26/B-24 mission you were discussing from the Youtube video.

The book can be found in full here:-
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=_m ... 22&f=false

Thanks. One could roleplay this by flying CAS by those tiny 4Es HQ squadrons or flying A/B/C squadrons, so the bombers do not fly as the whole group in box formation.

ORIGINAL: Yaab

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

A good vid.

"New Guinea Campaign: Allied Air Operations Lae-Salamaua"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOlAN51fJPs

Tells of B24's attacking artillery positions. Use of mortars firing smoke shells to mark dug in positions of Jap forces for bombing by heavies.

Lots of 2 engine bomber strafing action.

No, he says B24s bombed "gun emplacements in Chinatown". Later, Chinatown is defined as the main supply depot in Salamua. They used visual cue of the depots to bomb the guns.

And yes, at around 13:45 he mentions mortars firing smoke rounds to direct heavies to Jap positions. That is CAS, thank you.

About the mortar smoke. That was a legit CAS mission by B-17. Yet, the B-17s pilots had to actually see the smoke over the jungle, and the narrator does not mention neither the approach and attack altitudes. Would that be 2000 feet? 3000 feet? Because I am leaning to let the 4Es attack the LCUs in combat hexes provided the 4Es will fly really low in 2000-4000 feet range and expose themselves to AA fire.

Just as a curiosity for this discussion - from General Eichelberger's book - 4-E CAS.....[;)]...:

"From my headquarters at Telegrafo I took off on February 19, after a morning of staff work, to watch one of the earliest of the landings. Capul is a small island in San Bernardino Strait and it was a small landing—but I wanted to witness it. From my B-17 I could see the PT boats shepherding the slow, wallowing landing craft in a choppy sea. Now they stood off a coastal village and the bombardment started. The enemy was quiescent until our LCMs began to move inshore. Then the defenders’ firing began.

Abruptly Chuck Downer, my pilot, asked me a question. I said, “Okay.” Down we plunged with all guns firing. We made three runs over the enemy positions at an altitude of two hundred feet, and at the end of our third run I noticed from the cockpit a shell burst directly below our left wing. It was a burst from a Jap .75, but I am glad to report that my first and only strafing mission, nevertheless, was without crew casualties. I was told later that our rather garish performance encouraged a hesitant wave of landing craft to a quick and successful beaching".

And:

"Next morning I was on the bridge at seven-fifteen to watch the naval shelling. We had chosen landing beaches several miles west of Zamboanga City in hope of preserving the docks there for our future use. The cruisers were firing six-inch guns, and the destroyers and the destroyer escorts and the rocket-firing LCIs were making life miserable ashore. Just before the first wave of infantrymen landed, two flights of B-24s dropped heavy bombs on the landing beaches. Thirteen minutes later our infantrymen hit the beach; Marine planes and three flights of A-20 planes made strafing flights ahead of them. It was a coordinated job by three arms of our forces and admirable to watch".


Eichelberger, General Robert L. Our Jungle Road To Tokyo [Illustrated Edition] (p. 195). Verdun Press.

Fred

Thanks. The pre-landing attacks by B-24s, B-17s and 2ES are well documented. I am chasing those instances when the action went inland and 2ES/4ES were called for CAS after the landings. Keep them coming.