Matrix Games Forums

Originally posted by Don:
I just saw "Battle of the Bulge" the other day for the first time, but before I could even think about all the things that were bad about it I saw "U-571". This movie makes "B in the B" look good! Horrible casting, wooden dialogue, a far-fetched story that is completely made up made me want to


On the other hand, I just got "Stalingrad" and "Cross of Iron", neither of which I have seen. Can't wait to see them!

Don

Hey, Don, cool smiley!! How did you get it to do that??

I think the point should be looked at from a different angle. Sure there are loads of crap war movies that have silly role models/heroes/villains and rubbish storylines/scripts/dialoge etc..but that all pales into insignificance when you are faced with total lack of attention to detail.

Battle of the Bulge, arguably entertaining, but what was the point in making a film of one of the greatest tank battles in history by using US M-60's and Pattons striped up as Tigers and Panthers?! Laughable.

Many films have succumbed to this, Big Red, Tobruk, Bridge at Remagen, Castle Keep to name but a few.

Frankly it is similar in context (albeit extreme) to portraying medieval knights shooting each other with Glocks...

Anyone else care to comment?

Regards

Fabs, check out
http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002716.html

There's a million of these things at the linked website!

Don

Originally posted by Randy:
Rat Patrol? The Germans in the M-3 half track and the M-7 Priest SPG. I guess
those two jeeps won the war!
Semper Fi
Randy

I don't remember a lot about Rat Patrol except that after seeing on of the characters taking out a German sentry with a sling shot made me really REALLY want a sling shot too. My mother put the kibosh on that with no delay. I guess her reasoning what that with Combat, all I would want would be Johnny Eagle *toy* guns. Real havoc would ensue once I had a sling shot.

I guess jeeps and sling shots really won the war.

Originally posted by Don:
Fabs, check out
http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002716.html

There's a million of these things at the linked website!

Don

Thanks, Don. Having lots of fun with it!



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Fabs

I too was an avid "Combat" fan during my misspent youth. I haven't watched it in years, but something about the plots has always struck me as odd. Sgt Saunders squad never seemed to act as part of a larger organization. Mostly they went out on patrols (that might be fun to recreate in SPWAW) or engaged other equally small German units. Didn't these guys ever attack as part of a batallion or form part of a defensive position with other units on their flanks?
On a positive note, at least (in my recollection) the Germans weren't always portrayed as bufoons and the GI's didn't easily win in the face of overwhelming odds.

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Target, Cease Fire !

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund:
When I first saw SPR it hit me like a ton of bricks, suddenly I realized what it must be like, and it scared the **** out of me.

Same here, I spent a year in the army, like most everyone here in Sweden, and even though i was basically just a REMF we we did get basic combat training, so I did my share of mad charges up hills etc. When I watched SPR for the first time (went to see it in the theater on my own, bad decision it scared the crap out of me, since it "filled in the blanks" from those excercises I guess, showing me how it might have been if it'd been real.

As far as bad war movies go... the only bad one I've really seen I can't remember the name of, but it was a squad or so of American infantry working their way through Italy. I fell asleep halfway through, but I don't think I missed anything.


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Mats 'Rickenbacker' Nylund
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rickenbacker@innocent.com

kluckenbill said:

"Sgt Saunders squad never seemed to act as part of a larger organization. Mostly they went out on patrols (that might be fun to recreate in SPWAW) or engaged other equally small German units. Didn't these guys ever attack as part of a batallion or form part of a defensive position with other units on their flanks?"

The reason for this is that to dramatize war on screen you can only work with small groups of men, and patrol actions are easier (and cheaper) to film.

Almost every war movie I know homes in on a small unit. It would otherwise come across as too impersonal.


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Fabs

The best satire of war was Kellys Heroes. Towards the end, Donald Sutherland sitting in a lawn chair, his tank broken down. Clint says to him "What are you doin?". Sutherland says "Drinking some wine, eating some cheese, catching some rays". Clint says "Go help him fix it". Sutherland "Hey man, I don't fix em, I just drive em". LOL Remember don't have any of those "Negative waves man" MikeM

Don't remember the title but there was a TV movie with a guy in P40 (with a 20mm gun)who did an emergency landing, couldn't take again, so he taxiis around chasing a "German" tank "fine German Panther" across the desert.
I'm not kidding.
Forgot:
Honorable Mention: Iron Eagle etal. Always good for a laugh in any squadron I've been in...

*SNORE* The Thin Red Line *SNORE*

Originally posted by Grumble:
Don't remember the title but there was a TV movie with a guy in P40 (with a 20mm gun)who did an emergency landing, couldn't take again, so he taxiis around chasing a "German" tank "fine German Panther" across the desert.
_____________________________________________


I've seen that one! Luckily it was so long ago that I can't remember anything else about it!LOL

Don

for the good ones:

anyone knows "ardennen 44" (its the title in german though) - b/w movie with jack palance...recreates the atmosphere very well imo.

for wwI of course: "all quiet on the western front" - though made in the 1930s its a brilliant movie (and an even more brilliant book by erich maria remarque) - the remake in the 70s never came near it;


and there is one russian movie "come and see" from the 80s; its not a war movie (there is no actual fighting) -
the story is: a boy joins the partisans, his village gets wiped out, period.
recreating the atmosphere very very dense...there isnt much talking - it uses mainly pictures...makes you feel very depressed. i have seen it 10 years ago or so...still can remember almost every scene.

I have to defend 'The thin red line' a bit. There was one scene which was very very realistic: two soldiers are sent out to do some recon on that hill. They leave their cover and you hear nothing but the wind and their equipment making some noise. Then they reach the first open position, and it is "bum, bum" and you only hear the wind again. I thought that was very impressive, maybe even more the truth than the opening of SPR. Besides that, I agree with most comments made before.

My nomination for the worst war movie of the year is U-571 though. I saw it together with
my cousin who is a navy officer. First we laughed, but then the movie became insulting. It is pure crap and if I ever meet the director I will spit in his face.
(just one example: of course the americans
conquer the sub and of course they know the locations better than the original crew, who dont put up an ambush, etc, of course german destroyers have 2 gun turrets, bla bla bla)

As a german I am fed up with how my ancestors are shown. Of course, Hollywood needs an enemy, but seemingly they never even thought about that the american glory would be even bigger if they would win against the real germans of ww2. In most cases though, the americans won by quantity of material and not because of their better tactics. Most of my teachers served in the wehrmacht and they all told the same story of american tactics: recon - call in the arty/air force.

That it is only SS troops in SPR must be because they needed some clear, hateable enemy for the audience. The SS is an icon and it means THE EVIL. Btw, the shooting of germans with hands up is a war crime (beach scene), and the only way it is reflected in the movie is, when the guy who is spared (mg nest scene)turns out to be an ss man who gets sexually aroused from killing gi's with a knife. Of course, he is killed in the end and the audience loves it.
IMHO Spielberg hates the germans and his hate is so deep that he becomes unfair.
War sets free the worst and the best sides of men. In every country. Thats what I think.

Greets,
Holunder

Originally posted by Holunder:
I have to defend 'The thin red line' a bit. There was one scene which was very very realistic: two soldiers are sent out to do some recon on that hill. They leave their cover and you hear nothing but the wind and their equipment making some noise. Then they reach the first open position, and it is "bum, bum" and you only hear the wind again. I thought that was very impressive, maybe even more the truth than the opening of SPR.
Greets,
Holunder

I agree. That moment in Thin Red Line was really something. To see those gunflashes from the bushes and then soldiers are down....
Beautifully done scene. Simple - but effective.


I agree also what you said about SPR. It's sad that Spielberg takes that attitude towards Germans..


U-571?? -No Comments- Compared to this c..p movie - even SPR is one big (but lousy) masterpiece...
I haven't seen U-571 - and I never will.

The P-40 and Tank movie was Doug McClure as the P-40 pilot and Llyod Bridges as the German also as a german was the Capt from Rat Patrol but the tank was chasing the P-40 most of the movie, when the germans shot an american trying to surrender McClure got mad and turn his P-40 on the tank and Killed Bridges. The the rest of the Germans surrendered to the P-40 I do not remember the name of this stink bomb but it was a piece of art when compared to "Zero" if everyone here would go waste a dollar to rent "Zero" this discussion about all time loser war movie would be over.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Originally posted by Mogami:
The P-40 and Tank movie was Doug McClure as the P-40 pilot and Llyod Bridges as the German also as a german was the Capt from Rat Patrol but the tank was chasing the P-40 most of the movie, when the germans shot an american trying to surrender McClure got mad and turn his P-40 on the tank and Killed Bridges. The the rest of the Germans surrendered to the P-40 I do not remember the name of this stink bomb but it was a piece of art when compared to "Zero" if everyone here would go waste a dollar to rent "Zero" this discussion about all time loser war movie would be over.

The movie was "Death Race" and was made in 1973. I actually enjoyed it, a psyhological drama about the hunter and hunted. Lloyd Bridges as a very evil Afrika Korps tank commander - think it was a Stuart, I guess it was captured. Nice P-40 aircraft! The plane was shot up so it couldn't take off, and Doug McClure and another downed pilot try to surrender, but Bridges as the ardent Nazi decides they cannot take prisoners and shoots at them instead. His crew are tired of the war and hate his guts. Caine Mutiny in a tank!

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund:
Ok, now I got curious. Please tell us something more about that movie..the last panzer.

I have it too, the original video release before Troma purchased the rights. It was made in 1968, it was an Italian film about a German tank behind enemy lines in France 1944. The tank commander is in love with this French girl, but I believe she betrays him. It's not actually the last panzer at all, it's another M47 Patton I think. Very slow moving, with horrible acting and script. A Walmart $1.99 shelfer for sure!

Mogami, you imagined 'Zero'. It does not exist. And there was a 'Dirty Dozen' type flick with German prisoners. They were in an SS penal detachment. Anyone remember the name of this stinker?

troopie

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Pamwe Chete

So many so little room. I agree with the good ones Cross of Iron, Stalingrad, SPR. One that was not mentioned was The Beast, it was about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I thought it was pretty decent.
What really frosted my butt about the Thin Red Line was that First Sergeant(Sean Penn), every time I saw him he was sitting on his butt. Being a former 1SG, I have worn out many pairs of boots, but never the bottoms off my BDU's. That, plus the continous pontification.