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T18

Not sure if the expected weather pattern has changed – or I am being lucky ... or have simply forgotten what has happened in past games. Anyway, only lost 1 bombing week to bad weather and it remains no worse than cloud/rain.

U-boats are back at 3.



Annoying. Prepared to ignore them when they are at 1-2 VP per turn but that is too much, especially as Danzig has almost repaired from its T1 raid.

So this determined my bombing approach. BC goes for Hannover (for a change), 8 AAF split into 4 single city/2 day each raids on the most likely U-boat problems. The 2 engined bombers of Tac Air go back to Paris (protected by a well rested FC) to hit the rail yards and trucks.

So the German bombing is:



And my return to Paris:



If that is correct then BC was reasonably effective.



FC overwhelmed the Luftwaffe protecting Paris.



But the bombers decided to hit everything apart from the rail yards. Need to apologise to De Gaulle [1].



8 AAF had varied impact. That should stop Flensburg repairing before the end of 1943.



Luebeck maybe, probably needs another visit.



Rostock was a bit of a disaster.



But that should keep Danzig non-productive.



Italy. Sardinia is now mine, have all the ports on Corsica so should finish off the German defenders in the next two turns.



AI gave me Brindisi. Note the TF repairing the level 2 port. In effect I am keeping one free of further landings to do this and to replace any that start to take heavy losses protecting a temp port.



[1] Overry's excellent Bombing War has a really interesting chapter on the decision making around Allied bombing of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Clearly a constant trade off between hitting certain targets, that, to a point, Allied bombing raised morale but how a raid that turned out badly could be very counter-productive.

I'd recommend it to anyone looking for a good general overview of all the strategic bombing campaigns in WW2 (Allied, German and Soviet) and the intersection between operational planning, political issues and the different responses of the various civilian populations. He argues the only population where bombing produced active dissent was Italy (even before the surrender) in part as Italy was the only major power not to divert significant resources to coping with the effects.

ORIGINAL: loki100

[1] Overry's excellent Bombing War has a really interesting chapter on the decision making around Allied bombing of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Clearly a constant trade off between hitting certain targets, that, to a point, Allied bombing raised morale but how a raid that turned out badly could be very counter-productive.

I'd recommend it to anyone looking for a good general overview of all the strategic bombing campaigns in WW2 (Allied, German and Soviet) and the intersection between operational planning, political issues and the different responses of the various civilian populations. He argues the only population where bombing produced active dissent was Italy (even before the surrender) in part as Italy was the only major power not to divert significant resources to coping with the effects.

Yes that book is excellent, really interesting too is the summary of how effective strategic bombing was or in most cases wasn't and in particular found that the effect on the German economy was nowhere near what was hoped and in particular Bomber Command probably wasted a lot of lives both of their crews and German civilians without having much effect on the war. The 8th AF did have the huge effect of destroying the effectiveness of the German fighters through killing pilots faster than they could be trained and forcing reduction in bomber production in favour of fighters and of redeployment of fighters particularly from the russian front. I seem to remember it was only the oil and transport targets that turned out to be effective, and that the Allies had totally missed how vulnerable the aero engine industry was as it had next to no "cushion".

Overy is a professsor at my old Uni in Exeter, UK too

One question I have to the WitW experts and history buffs here is:
Would it not have been much more effective/efficient to focus completely on on or two branches of industry and infrastructure? I think about focusing on the fuel industry and the rail lines.
Damaging every industry by 10% will reduce the war capabilities of the country by 10%. But damaging one or two key industries to nearly 100% would render the intact industries useless.
Yes, the Axis can simply concentrate all flak there, but can they completely close the sky over the fuel industry on this way?
Protecting all rail lines is impossible.

And has such a strategy ever been tried out in WitW? I mean, if there is a chance to destroy the fuel industry, the Luftwaffe and mechanised forces would be useless from one day to another.
It means losing allot of VPs from submarines/V-Weapons etc. (I don't know how the VP system works in detail), but if you can collapse the Axis on this way and get to Berlin many months earlier it might be worth the effort?

ORIGINAL: Chuske

ORIGINAL: loki100

[1] Overry's excellent Bombing War has a really interesting chapter on the decision making around Allied bombing of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Clearly a constant trade off between hitting certain targets, that, to a point, Allied bombing raised morale but how a raid that turned out badly could be very counter-productive.

I'd recommend it to anyone looking for a good general overview of all the strategic bombing campaigns in WW2 (Allied, German and Soviet) and the intersection between operational planning, political issues and the different responses of the various civilian populations. He argues the only population where bombing produced active dissent was Italy (even before the surrender) in part as Italy was the only major power not to divert significant resources to coping with the effects.

Yes that book is excellent, really interesting too is the summary of how effective strategic bombing was or in most cases wasn't and in particular found that the effect on the German economy was nowhere near what was hoped and in particular Bomber Command probably wasted a lot of lives both of their crews and German civilians without having much effect on the war. The 8th AF did have the huge effect of destroying the effectiveness of the German fighters through killing pilots faster than they could be trained and forcing reduction in bomber production in favour of fighters and of redeployment of fighters particularly from the russian front. I seem to remember it was only the oil and transport targets that turned out to be effective, and that the Allies had totally missed how vulnerable the aero engine industry was as it had next to no "cushion".

Overy is a professsor at my old Uni in Exeter, UK too

Interestingly one fan of the Bomber Command approach was Stalin. At Yalta when things got very sticky the Allies would arrange to brief him on those operations and it seemed to cheer him up and calm him down. In effect something designed to kill (which it did) and spread terror (which it didn't particularly) appealed to him.

I was very impressed with Overy's writing. Great as a summary, concise, handles the detail well and keeps a focus on some big issues.

Now, to strange coincidences. My first degree was from Exeter as well ..., even if I've moved a long way north since then [;)]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

One question I have to the WitW experts and history buffs here is:
Would it not have been much more effective/efficient to focus completely on on or two branches of industry and infrastructure? I think about focusing on the fuel industry and the rail lines.
Damaging every industry by 10% will reduce the war capabilities of the country by 10%. But damaging one or two key industries to nearly 100% would render the intact industries useless.
Yes, the Axis can simply concentrate all flak there, but can they completely close the sky over the fuel industry on this way?
Protecting all rail lines is impossible.

And has such a strategy ever been tried out in WitW? I mean, if there is a chance to destroy the fuel industry, the Luftwaffe and mechanised forces would be useless from one day to another.
It means losing allot of VPs from submarines/V-Weapons etc. (I don't know how the VP system works in detail), but if you can collapse the Axis on this way and get to Berlin many months earlier it might be worth the effort?

As in WiTE, I personally think that WiTW is too generous about fuel production/usage. Its really not a constraint so in game I wouldn't hit it.

Having played the Axis in PBEMs, the two choke points are trucks and medium tanks. Run short of trucks and the mobility of the army falls apart (you know this from WiTE2), run short of medium tanks and your ability to recover from combat losses dips. Rail yards are more of a long game but the more you hit the more the axis need to use trucks, if you also hit the trucks then they lack the capacity to compensate.

I personally like the VP system. For U-boats and V-weapons its a way of modelling the consequences if you don't divert effort to deal with them. Going back to Overy and the British mass census that was run in the war years, its clear that the V-weapons had a morale impact beyond their real threat ... one argument is that the civilian population had made a psychological shift to expecting to be safe, esp after the liberation of France and suddenly there was a return of a threat.

It also reflects the near impossibility of getting Harris to listen or obey orders. He was going to bomb German population centres and it was a constant struggle to stop him. He even bombed Cologne the night before the British army entered the city.

So you have a neat system where the targets you know you want to hit are not the targets you can spare the resources to hit.

Theres a couple of air only scenarios in the game and I've tried different strategies in those. My feeling is going for the German core targets (trucks/tanks and trains) doesn't compensate for fully ignoring the VP bearing targets, but the game clearly allows you to make that decision. I think you'll struggle to get beyond a draw as all those bombing VPs mask the lost VPs once ground combat really starts. But you may well gain Berlin earlier. If I recall that is worth 100 VP/turn,

Thanks for your explanations loki

A good recent history of the effects of the bombing campaign can be found in Phillips Payson O-Brien, How the War was Won: Air-Sea Power and Allied Victory in World War II (Cambridge University Press, 2015). Don’t overlook the most in-depth studies in the US Strategic Bombing Survey and the official USAAF history (The Army Air Forces In World War II, Wesley Frank Craven and James Lea Cate, Eds.). Both of these sources are now in public domain and PDFs can be downloaded for free at various sites.

After the war, German industrial and policy leaders told Allied interrogators (primarily those with the US Strategic Bombing Survey) that one economic sector was key - transportation, specifically railyards and inland river ports in Germany. Anything that needed to be transported in large quantities had to move by rail and/or barge. And of all those products, coal was critical. Any industrial process that required heat (steel foundries, chemical plants, electric power generation - 75% of which was supplied by coal-fired plants) required large quantities of coal, as did the locomotives that moved everything. Moreover, the synthetic fuel that replaced petroleum-based fuels was converted from coal.

The Allies didn’t start the systematic and repeated bombing German railyards (as opposed to French/Belgian/Dutch railyards) until September 1944. Many recall that German industrial production peaked in September 1944; by December it had fallen off a cliff.

The USSBS noted the ineffectiveness of strategic bombing of other industrial sectors; however, it did note that the transportation campaign, which lasted from September until the end of the war, was effective in halting the movement of coal throughout Germany. Denied of more than just a trickle of coal, industrial production quickly broke down.

Ironically, the Allies felt during the war that the transportation campaign wasn’t working, because its primary objective, halting the rail movement of troops and ammunition at the front, didn’t seem to occur. It was only after Allied troops crossed the Rhine in March 1945 that intelligence analysts observed what had happened to German industry since October.

Rail transportation was considered so vital that German workers were pulled from factories into rail repair units (slave workers were considered too risky to work on rail repair). Even so, the amount of coal shipped in the Ruhr fell by almost 60% between September and October. By November factories were reduced to operating only when there was sufficient coal for their electrical generation plants, even though they had enough raw materials to produce at September levels for another year.

Within the transportation campaign, the bombing of railyards had a greater effect than shooting up railways and trains. Rail movement hinges upon railyards, where trains are put together and broken down, and where locomotives are repaired. Aside from turntables, railyards can be quickly repaired, so repeated strikes against the same yards are required over a long period of time. However, the Germans did find that some yards were hit so often that the bombs effectively “plowed” the ground, making it too soft to support repaired railbeds without the use of heavy compacting equipment, which had to be transported by rail ….

With regard to targeting railyards in the game -- I have found that you can't replicate the strategic effects on German industry. It seems to keep producing even while all of the railyards are in the red.

However, I have noticed something in v.1.01.72 (beta before the most recent official update). I focused the 15th AF and the 12th Bomber Command (I prefer playing the Addl Air HQ scenario) exclusively on Italian railyards relatively close to the front line beginning in Sep '43 - I found that within 3-4 turns the supply state of almost all the Axis units opposing me was red for most turns. As a result, once I conducted a second invasion just north of Rome with 3 divisions in late December '43 I advanced relatively rapidly up the Italian boot. I didn't commit any ground or air units from England and the German AI formed defensive lines repeatedly; but, with little supply, they couldn't hold.

I broke into the Po River Valley in June '44 and captured Turin, Milan, and Venice by the end of July, pushing the Axis line to the Alps.

Repeating this railyard air strategy in France, I invaded Normandy in the last week of May, '44 and broke out of Normandy in the first week of July, much faster than in previous games. Again, almost all of the German units opposing me were in the red for supply by the end of June. The German AI formed a defensive line on the Seine, but I easily broke that in one week.

It is now the first week of Sept '44 and I have a line from the Swiss border to the Scheldt Estuary, having captured Brussels last turn and surrounded Antwerp. I had to slow the advance because I lacked reinforcements and ran out of admin points as I created new depots and marked several French railyards for priority repair. The German AI seems to be able to partially restore its supply situation every second or third turn before they all go in to the red again. I have decided to continue hitting the railyards relatively close to the frontline (hitting the same yards continuously) and using the 15th AF to do all of the "strategic" bombing (since I have gone over to the defensive in the Italian Alps).

I don't know if there was a change from previous versions, since I never repeatedly hit railyards already red in previous games - I usually hit them until they went red, then moved on. I recall some comments from the developers that repeated railyard strikes affects freight, so maybe this is what is hurting the German supply situation.

Thanks t you took
I did not think about coal at first but it was very important at this time.

Thanks for the incredibly useful discussion and information. One of the reasons I keep on coming back to WiTW is the air war model. Its so interesting to both study the historical campaign and trying out ideas.

I do put the effort into clearing out the railyards in the combat regions. I also find some railway bombing (the 2E bombers seem to be good for this) also helps as it all escalates the cost of transport.

What would be interesting would be to really focus on a more strategic focus on the railyards. In theory you could (maybe) reduce the Germans to using trucks for resupply. If it worked, you should generate a global supply shortage for the Axis not just a localised one?

T19

VP situation. Last turn's U-boat focus pays off but a problem is I have to rest all the 8 AAF fighter escorts (fatigue not low morale). Other issue is that I have slightly misdeployed in Italy so the fighting is falling on British not US units. Still running a +ve score.



Major German offensive near Bari – all those losses were British (hence the VP situation).



8 AAF I decided to commit in the Rhineland/Pfalz as I can cover that sector with an AS mission for Fighter Command. Useful block of damage to what are usually secondary targets.



BC went back to the Ruhr as I spotted a fair few targets either untouched or nearly repaired. That is an impressive haul.



Tac Air is back hitting rail yards etc in France and Belgium. Some mistakes but no harm to start knocking out the V-weapon launch sites – I like to have all the options along the coast knocked out before the start of 1944.



I've not mentioned much about my bombing strategy. I'm using the 2-engined bombers in S Italy to hit railyards and the 4-engined are going for Rome – and to knock out the local ports.

Italy – this shows the interdiction before any ground moves. Am struggling to get control over the sea lanes at Bari. Note the AI has given me a gift of Tarento.



Position after my moves.



Putting some pressure on around Reggio Calabria.

T20-21

Two turns of heavy rain in NW Europe so simply rested the airforce in the UK – and upgraded to new types etc. Also flipped a lot of FC formations to 'bomber', gave them Typhoons and they are off to train for their new role.

Which leaves Italy. Heavier bombers are hitting rail yards around Rome. 2-eng bombers working over S Italy. Re-organised the air commands so the Malta command has control of the F/FB formations I've deployed at Bari so that Tactical Air can concentrate on Calabria and build up for the Rome landings.

Off Bari, finally have wrested some control over the seas.



On land by T21 had finished off the German divisions I bypassed. That powerful German force has been counter-attacking, fortunately all failed but with heavy losses for both sides.



Things went better in Calabria. I've been niggling away up the coastal flanks for the last 4 turns and finally got my reward. With well rested US armour to hand managed to exploit a victory and generate a pocket. I think I can push one division rapidly up to the toe and will land paras to seal off the region next turn.



VP for T21. Not sure why the U-boat score dropped from 2 to 1 with no bombing but not complaining. You can see the effect of the more sustained fighting in Italy in terms of my loss VP score.



Both Corsica and Sardinia are liberated, so have sent some of the units to reinforce the Bari landings. The rest I'll keep back as second wave reinforcements for the Rome invasion. Looking at the prep pts I think I can do a 2 hex landing in about 3 turns or 3 hexes in 5-6 turns. Need to think if its worth waiting.

2 hexes plus the Adriatic landings may be sufficient if (as I think) the AI has over-extended at Bari. Rome by early 1944 has a huge impact on the VP score.

T22

Snowfall in NW Europe so back to being able to bomb.

Not a moment too soon with my Bombing points <10. All things being equal I'm going to ignore the U-boats now unless I can hit some sites as part of another mission. I will try to pre-bomb the V2 sites though – they tend to repair quickly so need fairly constant attention.



8 AAF has gained from its rest and have over 1,400 bombers available. So decided on a deeper raid with a particular target. Magdeburg is something like 50% of the German Pzr IV production and is also a region with manpower and fuel. So with a decent number of longer ranged fighters to hand decide its time to shift to new targets.



The results were mixed. Mostly actually very good but I would have liked to do more damage to the tank production.



Couple of fighter battles worth discussing. Now I have Malta Air (with a different OOB to the at start set up) based at Brindisi this allows me to place an AS over the German ground and air units. Of value, this AS is engaging with German bombers trying to dispute my naval control as well.

This sort of result occurs when one side is both outnumbered and outclassed. Seeing German pilots with experience <70 is indicative that they are suffering losses to their at start pilot cadre and not really replacing them.

Also the battle occured at a height that suits my planes more than the Bf109s. Its not till mid-44 do the Germans deploy a fighter that likes that sort of altitude.



By contrast this happened when I was protecting the Tac Air raids. Interesting for two reasons – it shows how much the experience of my fighters has improved due to the constant use and the Germans will never replace experience 99 pilots.



BC went to the south of the Ruhr. Again the rest has given me an increased striking power.



Bomber Command celebrated its nights out over the Ruhr. The raids on Duisberg, Wuppertal and Essen being particularly effective. The other damage tops up already existing damage to those sites.



2 Tac Air is now going for railyards and V2 launch sites outside Germany. I'll divert some of the Halifaxes from BC to help out with this campaign.



Not tended to show the reports of bombing in Italy. But 15 Air's heavier bombers have been hitting transport links around Rome and it looks like the main railyard is now out of use (that +36 is added to an existing +20).



Rare large tank battle. When WiTW first came out I tried to avoid risky attacks I now just accept them. My logic is that you need to shed some loss related VP in order to make gains (hence the recent breakout in Calabria) and that will hurt the Germans. I have most of the local rail yards knocked out and have just (above) done some damage to their medium tank production. My guess is it will be some time before 16 Pzr recovers while I have a fresh Canadian tank division available.

As an aside – note the Germans are still attacking. These are producing some bruising battles with both sides losing around 2,000 men.



Overall situation in Italy. Pushed the regiments of one US tank division up the toe – moved an airborne regiment to Crotone as a garrison and the spare TF arrived to repair the port. Another airdrop still targettted to the north but don't want to risk the paras being isolated, so I'll drop or airtransport in conjunction with the arrival of the tanks.



Have a choice of invading at Rome next turn with 4 divisions (2 landings) or the turn after (I think) with 6 divisions. I'll keep an eye on the weather.

ORIGINAL: loki100

VP for T21. Not sure why the U-boat score dropped from 2 to 1 with no bombing but not complaining. You can see the effect of the more sustained fighting in Italy in terms of my loss VP score.

I have noticed that bombing/U-boat/V-weapon VP adjustments often seem to occur one turn after significant damage has been inflicted.

ORIGINAL: loki100

Bomber Command celebrated its nights out over the Ruhr. The raids on Duisberg, Wuppertal and Essen being particularly effective. The other damage tops up already existing damage to those sites.

Do you switch Bomber Command to daylight missions in 1944? I have found that Luftwaffe night fighters become extremely effective by Summer, inflicting major losses on bombers. With the advent of the Mustang III in the Spring, I usually transfer 6-8 Fighter Command squadrons to Bomber Command as daylight escorts and run daylight bombing missions only. If the 8th AF fighters have done their job, there is relatively little Luftwaffe daylight opposition until the Me-262 starts rearing its head in the Fall.

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

ORIGINAL: loki100

VP for T21. Not sure why the U-boat score dropped from 2 to 1 with no bombing but not complaining. You can see the effect of the more sustained fighting in Italy in terms of my loss VP score.

I have noticed that bombing/U-boat/V-weapon VP adjustments often seem to occur one turn after significant damage has been inflicted.

Not sure it should happen though. While other production is driven by the % damage, these should be binary, any damage = no VP lost, full production = vp. In contrast say a manpower factory will produce if the dice role (1-100) is > damage *2. So a 40% damaged factory has a 20% chance of fully producing in any one turn.

I'll keep an eye on it and see if it crops up again.

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

ORIGINAL: loki100

Bomber Command celebrated its nights out over the Ruhr. The raids on Duisberg, Wuppertal and Essen being particularly effective. The other damage tops up already existing damage to those sites.

Do you switch Bomber Command to daylight missions in 1944? I have found that Luftwaffe night fighters become extremely effective by Summer, inflicting major losses on bombers. With the advent of the Mustang III in the Spring, I usually transfer 6-8 Fighter Command squadrons to Bomber Command as daylight escorts and run daylight bombing missions only. If the 8th AF fighters have done their job, there is relatively little Luftwaffe daylight opposition until the Me-262 starts rearing its head in the Fall.

I've not really noticed this but that may be a consequence of PBEM play. Most German players (incl me) will start to slowly scrap NF formations to fill out the gaps in the day fighters. The logic seems to be that unhindered 8 AAF will cause more damage than BC, also as it operates a bit lower BC is more easily hit by flak (as ever the key is damage = lost morale = resting formaitons).

Now I have the second generation P51s deploying I am going to start running AS missions over Germany. These tend to be very attritional, so you can't sustain it but are key to breaking the Luftwaffe as the fighters go looking for combat rather than focus on protecting the bombers.

I'd agree about the Me-262, from either side they don't make that much difference. The final set of allied piston planes can - sort of - handle them fairly well and even if the German player concentrates them they can't really overcome the structural weaknesses facing the Luftwaffe by late 1944.

When the game first came out, night bombing was not very effective and a lot of players opted to use BC on day raids. I never liked this as it clearly cut across British doctrine and now I find that night raids work out well. So I keep the strategic campaign as night bombing. But do move some Halifax formations into Tactical Air for day raids in France. Equally around the D-day landings use the Lancasters on day raids on the rail yards west of the Rhine.

T23

VP score remains fairly stable. Since there are only 4 turns of U-boat scores left I am going to ignore that unless it slips up to 4. I'll hit some sites as part of other raids in any case.



Decided to split 8 AAF into two blocks. One repeated last turns attacks around Magdeburg. I'd like to knock out that Pzr IV production and I can then start to use 15 AAF on the plants in S Germany.

The other raid was designed to start degrading the V weapon sites along the Baltic. These repair quicker than the U-boats so are more of a distraction, even with the Allied build up of air power in 1944.



Results were not that good for either cluster. The main raids did knock out a lot of HI but didn't touch the AFV production.

Next turn will see the first deployment of the second generation P51s, at that stage I'll detach them from escort duties and put them onto AS. I can then hunt the Luftwaffe almost anywhere west of the Elbe.



The secondary raids were ineffective. Think I need to make this the prime focus of one week to knock down the production sites.



2 Tactical Air is now going after the launch sites and rail yards in NE France/Belgium. I'm reinforcing it by transferring some Halifaxes from BC as I like to have the rail net knocked out by early spring.



Bomber Command went for Hamburg. I've not really hit the manpower and HI here.



For some reason Harris clearly decided he now likes bombing U-boats ...



Italy. In the south the US armour push up the toe. There is a running pocket battle behind them. 7 Army attacks to break out at Bari.



Spent a while looking at the weather and my prep pts. In the end gamble that next turn will be no worse than rain but T25 might be heavy rain (there is a low pressure area moved into the W Med).

So decided on the 4 division landing model rather than wait. A British para division will also drop in support. Note the single division landing at Pescara.

I had a cluster of regimental drops planned for around Bari. In the end I didn't do these as I have poor recon and can't risk losing the equivalent of a US para division if the AI has reserves. Of course the advantage of this drop would have been to tangle up the German units fighting near Bari.



So Rome in time for the New Year?

T24

Ok, that turn was painful, Since I hadn't really allocated much naval air to protecting the Rome landings I took a fair amount of losses. Results in a turn of -ve VP.

My logic is that Rome itself is so valuable that those losses will pay themselves back.



But before more on Italy, time to do some bombing.

Decided to concentrate 8 AAF on the Baltic targets.



Which paid off fairly well.



Last turn I put the B-17s, Liberators and long range escorts of 15 AAF onto Sardinia. This brings S Germany and Austria into range. First target is Steyr with the bulk of the undamaged PzIV production (if I recall the final batch is at Nuremburg). The escorts cover the bombers over the Alps but not quite to the targets. The rest of 15 AAF is hitting rail yards in Tuscany and N Italy.

Hitting Germany is hard to sustain as the range means higher Op Losses and Fatigue.

If that is true then its one of the PzIV factories knocked out.



Tac Air carries on hitting NE France. Again worked out well.



BC decided to disturb Berlin's rest



To little real effect.



Italy. 8A is still in a running battle in Calabria. The German units are isolated but I can't quite pin them down. 7A is pushing north as fast as possible as the Germans ran away. I used air transport to place a US Para division at Pescara (I am finding this a very useful approach as clearly you run fewer risks than with a conventional drop). 5A is mostly ashore and can go over to the defensive till 7A arrives.

Supply is going to be a real problem till I have Naples so my next moves will depend on how well (if at all) that is defended.

Have sent 2 TF back to the UK, so need to start thinking about the invasion of France.

ORIGINAL: loki100

I'd agree about the Me-262, from either side they don't make that much difference. The final set of allied piston planes can - sort of - handle them fairly well and even if the German player concentrates them they can't really overcome the structural weaknesses facing the Luftwaffe by late 1944.

I am interested to see how the Me-262 does in your current game. In my previous games my experience was similar to yours - they hurt, but not too badly. However, I first tried v1.01.72 with the 1945 Campaign scenario and now with the Add'l Air HQs campaign - I (irrationally) fear that something has changed. In a recent AS directive battle 300+ Mustangs took on approx 150 Bf-109s and Fw-190s and 44 Me-262s - my Mustangs first shot down close to 100 of the piston-engine planes, but the jets then joined the battle and very quickly shot down 42 Mustangs while losing only 12 of their own. And in the 1945 scenario, I suffered 1,200 air combat losses in a single turn, including more than 300 fighters; 600 of those were lost to Me-262s. This means in one week the game's Me-262s matched the real-life Me-262 record for the entire war (approx 500-700 Allied aircraft destroyed between Aug 1944 and April 1945).

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

ORIGINAL: loki100

I'd agree about the Me-262, from either side they don't make that much difference. The final set of allied piston planes can - sort of - handle them fairly well and even if the German player concentrates them they can't really overcome the structural weaknesses facing the Luftwaffe by late 1944.

I am interested to see how the Me-262 does in your current game. In my previous games my experience was similar to yours - they hurt, but not too badly. However, I first tried v1.01.72 with the 1945 Campaign scenario and now with the Add'l Air HQs campaign - I (irrationally) fear that something has changed. In a recent AS directive battle 300+ Mustangs took on approx 150 Bf-109s and Fw-190s and 44 Me-262s - my Mustangs first shot down close to 100 of the piston-engine planes, but the jets then joined the battle and very quickly shot down 42 Mustangs while losing only 12 of their own. And in the 1945 scenario, I suffered 1,200 air combat losses in a single turn, including more than 300 fighters; 600 of those were lost to Me-262s. This means in one week the game's Me-262s matched the real-life Me-262 record for the entire war (approx 500-700 Allied aircraft destroyed between Aug 1944 and April 1945).

Thats interesting and plausible as sometimes small changes can create all sorts of problems. The air war seems to be particularly vulnerable to this.

In testing WiTE2 one of the starts is the Soviet Vistula-Berlin offensive and the VVS has been taking horrific (and unrealistic) losses - in part due to the way that experience trumps most other factors. But it may also be that certain plane characteristics have been emphasised, so when you add in an unusual plane like the Me-262 it has gained a lot compared to past experience (the air code afaik is the same as in WiTW).

Add to that to the things to keep an eye out for [;)]

T25-26

Both these turns had blizzard conditions in NW Europe so again rested the Allied airforces in the UK. In Italy bombing was limited to tactical missions and the German rail yards.

VP situation for T26. Note that Rome is producing a real boost to the city line.



Situation on the ground for T25, by T26 had almost linked up the Pescara and Rome landings and some armour has arrived at Pescara. Note that Naples was undefended and Bari just captured. These two turns saw a lot of German attacks on my lines north of Rome.

Still some fighting in Calabria but most the German units now destroyed so 8A can push north.

Need to think about what to do in Italy now. One problem is that till Naples is repaired, supply is a real problem so will probably have to pause in any case. Also need some of the units (and airpower) back in the UK.

Main question is what is worth fighting for. Find that Rome is the real prize and secondary gains are as much lost combat VP as anything.

Anyway started to prepare some further divisional landings up the Adriatic coast but otherwise will rest and let the supply net improve.



Also need to start planning for France. Have 2 TF in UK ports so time to pick a spot. I'll briefly discuss what I think are the options.

In the maps I've marked both possible landing sites and where the TF would need to stay to maintain the ports.

NE France has some advantages. Its so close to the UK that FB can often operate without fuel tanks (note in the UK I am building up every airbase I can). You are to the east of the Seine so that undermines an important German defensive line. It takes out a lot of the V-weapon sites.

Problem is that you will need to divert units to the west to clear out the bigger ports so that weakens any offensive. Also the initial battles are grim as you have no defensive protection.

Here I think there are two blocks. Around Boulogne and at the mouth of the Somme. Boulogne is a mess of disconnected landings (even if you risk a Dieppe style direct assault), you need 3 TF to protect the landing ports and at least one will take attrition (unless you capture Boulogne).

The Somme option is better. I've used this against the AI before and its TF efficient, gives you a connected set of beach-heads and you can use the Somme itself to protect one of your flanks. I think this is a good spot. Only main weakness is you only get one rail yard as a result.



Normandy. There is nothing much wrong with variants of the historical landings. The terrain protects you, its TF efficient, but the actual breakout is a challenge and you will then (at least in PBEM) face the problem of crossing the Seine.

Second option is to split the landings around Le Havre. This is a bit of an odd choice but my logic is that you will not take Le Havre easily (but you can isolate it using Paratroops). You'll have to abandon one of your landing ports (too much naval attrition from Le Havre) but otherwise you are to the east of the Seine but well placed to take the Brittany ports and Paris.



Finally Brittany. Issue here is you are a long way to the West and most German players will have time to set up around Paris. But I've seen AARs with the St Malo landings and it can be effective. Usually a quick easy breakout, you should take St Malo quick enough to avoid too much naval attrition.

But you are a long way from the UK for airpower, so this will cost fatigue, load outs and operational losses.



Since this is also the end of 1943, few contextual charts. No surprise for the bombing VP chart. On balance I think that 55 morale has proved to be a good choice (before I've tended to set it higher) and 2-3 days/week has meant a sustained steady effort with no pauses (apart from for weather).



Air losses. Substantial variation turn by turn but on balance the ratio looks like .9:1 (axis:allied).



Detailed air loss charts. Lost planes actually in my favour but the pilots at a ratio of .6:1. Again that suits me as I can (mostly) replace, the Germans can't.



This just shows the German losses. The Bf-109s have had a real battering, in part related to my aggressive use of FC and its Spitfires.



Finally land losses. Bit misleading as a lot of the Axis captured will have been Italian formations that were cut off in the Sicily battles.

One issue is that even though I have started to bomb their tank production I doubt I've knocked out enough German tanks to make much of a difference yet. Goal really is to eliminate German replacement capacity so that the Pzr divisions become fragile and find it hard to replace their losses.



So T27 brings 1944 and planning for France.