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That is very gamey imo. I had one opponent not taking London to trigger not trigger the capital change for a while... It is about the same. I would not do it even in a turnament and even with my opponent aggreement cause I would lose any fun in the game.

As for this game, well that s not my call [:D]

ORIGINAL: room

That is very gamey imo. I had one opponent not taking London to trigger not trigger the capital change for a while... It is about the same. I would not do it even in a turnament and even with my opponent aggreement cause I would lose any fun in the game.

As for this game, well that s not my call [:D]

Agreed. I wouldn't do it but it is within the rules. Like the London decision Room mentions its obviously bogus and hard to see anything other than something that fell thru the cracks from AI => PBEM. This doesn't seem as egregious but I'd take the higher ground.

These are 2 different cases: there's nothing you can do about London or Paris, but in case of the DAK there are still several options. Other points are 1. the strength of the Italians (could have sent more troops), and 2. he's not yet there.

Both players participated in creating these conditions (if I hadn't attacked his garrison, I would have saved 1 or maybe 2 turns), I find it odd to expect my opponent not to make use of it. I would.

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

ORIGINAL: room

That is very gamey imo. I had one opponent not taking London to trigger not trigger the capital change for a while... It is about the same. I would not do it even in a turnament and even with my opponent aggreement cause I would lose any fun in the game.

As for this game, well that s not my call [:D]

Agreed. I wouldn't do it but it is within the rules. Like the London decision Room mentions its obviously bogus and hard to see anything other than something that fell thru the cracks from AI => PBEM. This doesn't seem as egregious but I'd take the higher ground.

I definitely think gaming the unfavorable spawning of the DAK (unfavorable to the Axis), and the gaming of not triggering the capital change by not taking London, are issues that should be remedied by the developers for the sake of better PBEM play not requiring the use of house rules.

I wouldn't do either, and would certainly hope that any of my opponents would not do the same.

To any of the developers that may be following along here, could you kindly weigh in on these two issues?

@Sugar and KZ, thanks for posting this interesting and very insightful AAR! [:)]
I am learning a lot!

What version are you playing, if not the latest Beta?

Cheers,

C

In this case it's a matter of balancing imho: attacking the Axis during the deployment phase of the DAK is the only way to achieve an advantage for the Brits in this decisive theatre. We're still playing V1.12, and it would be completely unfair and also counterproductive to deny this opportunity, since I myself benefitted from this strategy during my last tourney match. Remember one reason to arrange this tournament was to figure out the balancing, implementing houserules after the start would falsify the image as well as the result.

It just doesn't seem right for Allies to take Msus/Derna/Mekili and not Gazala so they can surround the DAK. A quick fix would be for the Axis to have a choice of placement. In this case the Allies are making a decision that the Axis should make. It's correct that it isn't as bad as the London stunt but still shouldn't be.

Additionally, if Benghazi port is at 0 (or really at any value less than 5), the DAK shouldn't be able to off load there. It couldn't via normal rules.

Maybe we should start a "Wall of Shame" and report players who use things like the London stunt.

A solution to the London loophole re US/USSR intervention would be to extend it to a couple of other cities as well (Portsmouth for example). Certainly I would argue that Sealion itself would raise US intervention levels.

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Its never happened to me but its my understanding that its a popular "trick" for Axis to take all of GB but just surround London (w/o taking it). This will prevent the re-localisation of GB capital, prevents deploying new units and also locks the convoy routes. Its something that should probably change, its an AI => PBEM thing.

The PBEM game is quite different you should try it.

Above is the London issue, I think its more complex than US/USSR intervention. You can't move to another city without taking the other.

Not much to report this turn (sept 22). The Axis finaly makes their move vs Malta... it should fall next turn. Some unit shuffling around Tobruk as UK troops refit for the next stage of their offensive. UK bombers get to work and finish off Graziani, however Guzzoni is nearby to pick up the slack. USSR finally reach their tech research limit...

Regarding DAK, interesting points on both sides, even if one of the sides is just one person. [;)]

I made my mind, and shall be merciful (footage from the front lines included) [:'(]

I tend to agree with the general consensus that trapping the DAK seems less like a shrewd knock-out blow than a kick in the balls.

To me 'could have sent more troops' and 'do it to figure out the balancing' arguments can be turned on their heads to plead the opposite. In the first case, it could be technically be used by 'london siegers' by saying 'hey you didn't protect vs sealion, your fault'. For the second, I could say I'm testing the 'balancing' by see how well I can do without having to resort to it.

I would say that given the poor win-loss ratio achieved by the Axis so far, tweaking the DAK spawning seems like a low hanging fruit to give them a little break. Have the westernmost boundary be a radius around Tobruk or Bardia free of allied troops rather than be Gazala ownership. Make the Axis a bit more paranoid and that way they won't deploy out of supply or within bomber range.

On this, I initiate the radio-silence sequence. I'll be patrolling the board but no turn will be posted before Sunday!

Hi I'm back! Tobruk falls. Malta holds because of rain. I'm tired so that's all you're getting. :0)

Nov 1940



Same ol', Same ol'. UK bleeds ships at sea, Italians bleed units on land. Malta falls. Brits take Gazala. For those that doubt of the use of the maritime bombers, this game shows how powerful they can be. A single unit based in Sicily almost singled handledly saved the Axis position from collapse in the Med by clearing benghazi and tripoli from allied naval presence.

A little bonus for your patience, a look at some countries in the tech/diplo race.

I have to admit Sugar taught me the true value of the Maritime Bomber.

right on cue... [:D]



UK tank crushes an italian corp and force the Italian HQ to retreat.

Bad news is, that's just too many planes to handle even with the bare-bone garrison screen.
Good news is, weather turned sour so I won't be blown to bits next turn. [;)]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

right on cue... [:D]

That is a sight to behold, and to be feared!

Thanks again to the both of you for the AAR.

Cheers,

C

ORIGINAL: Christolos

That is a sight to behold, and to be feared!

Thanks again to the both of you for the AAR.

Cheers,

C

To be truthful, the tank was worrying me more than the planes in the short term. This was proven to be a prescient because the Str 11 tech 2 panzer, sniped my tech 1 tank at a rate of 1 to 8. [X(] That seems... harsh. Considering that the unit associated HQ is rating 8 and has 2 pip of experience, I wasn't expecting anything so one sided. Especially since this was achieved without any air support, just as a straight up land attack (and not even a prepared attack to boot!).

Operation crusader is cancelled, retreat!!!

Geez... sounds kinda familiar....

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Geez... sounds kinda familiar....

Yeah... but IIRC in our game it was tech level 4, str 13 panzer vs tech 1 tanks supported by zero pip HQs

In the present case I was thinking 1:3 or 2:4 odds. Not 1:6. [X(]

April 1941

Quiet turn in NA as German/Italian force advance but keep their distances.

The new objective for the UK is to draw out the battle in NA for as long as possible to ease the pressure on the soon to be started Barbarossa. (For those that want to fight air war vs Germany, double chit Command and control tech all the way! You need to get those two level of tech ASAP or you'll get slaughtered.) An empty Rhodes is invaded to use as a bargaining chip towards Turkey (aka 15-25% mobilization increase towards Allies). Income-wise UK and USSR collect around 280 each, USA 150 while Germany 650 mpp and Italy 100. It is closer than in a normal game at which point the mpp proportion tend to be one-sided towards the Axis.

Let's look at the status of mpp collection and loss...



UK took a beating at see losing about half a dozen naval asset (1 destroyer, the rest larger ships) which is reflected in their losses. The rest is constituted from the tank and from the air war in NA. It's about to get higher because Yugo just joined but Germany haven't had a chance to crush them.



Germany has been getting through the war mostly unscathed. The two late spikes were due to NA air battles.



Italy jumped on the UK grenade to protect Germany from harm. They lost 1 Battleship, 1 cruiser and a sub, the rest is land units. When I saw so many garrison in Cyrenaica I figured some areas had been stripped to save Benghazi (Re: Rhodes).