Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: loki100

There comes a point where any complex game can be broken/exploited if you head off far enough from the basic design. Some/most can be dealt with some ease, but it can't legislate for every potential issue?

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This is true, and if nothing else, for one thing it can always be handled by house rules. For example, there could be a house rule "you can only motorize." But your point that it is very hard to eliminate all possible exploity/broken stuff in a game is definitely valid (I make a multiplayer mod for Hearts of Iron IV that tries to make that game more historical and remove every possible exploit I can, so I have some direct experience dealing with that sort of thing!).

I would think it would also be possible to program in a limitation such as "units must be ready (not unready) to be motorized and only full-divisional-size units such as full-infantry divisions can be motorized."

But at its core, you can remove a lot directly in a game (or mod) itself, but it is hard to find and remove every such thing.

One good part about WITE2 muliplayer, however, is games take place over a relatively long period of time, with a repeated opponent. This gives players an incentive to play reasonably/sensibly in a manner agreed to with their opponent, or else they may find that they don't have an opponent in the future!

, they'd still be able to move long distances in friendly territory, which is what the original temp motorization rules were intended for. Limiting to just friendly hexes would prevent them from being used in the ad hoc way that they were used at times in the war.

What about having to designate a unit to be motorised a week in advance, something like prep points for paratroops? That would prevent unrealistic spontaneous motorisations which in real life would take time to organise and administrate.

I posted a thread on the main forum before I saw this topic but yeah, motorization appears to have pretty much broken H2H play, as can be clearly seen by the number of house rules cropping up around it. It is enabling a ton of gamey things in early GC turns that can be counteracted but turn this into a very different game, and one that I think many just don't want to play. And again, given the nature of turn 1 in the GC, we are already seeing temp motorization becoming standardized (particularly the cheap motorization of security divisions) as Axis players try to craft ever more maximally effective T1 openings.

At this moment I think this is a much better game without this feature, but if it is to be kept it should be curtailed to a form of non-rail bound admin movement.

Was not the hole point of WitW + WitE 2 to end the gamey logistics of WitE?

This seems far worse as it appears people have just "found it". Delete a few junk/plane/HQ units for the trucks and MoT 3 infantry divisions per turn and GHC can easly over run enough VP's to win the game by late 41, playing stalemate from late 41 to 45. Boring!!

I hope this is fixed very soon, I just bought the game and had very high hopes for it.

Was WitE 2 play tested at all?

No way I am playing it HvH or telling others to buy the game until this Wizard of OZ stuff is nerfed.

ORIGINAL: RoadWarrior

Was not the hole point of WitW + WitE 2 to end the gamey logistics of WitE?

This seems far worse as it appears people have just "found it". Delete a few junk/plane/HQ units for the trucks and MoT 3 infantry divisions per turn and GHC can easly over run enough VP's to win the game by late 41, playing stalemate from late 41 to 45. Boring!!

I hope this is fixed very soon, I just bought the game and had very high hopes for it.

Was WitE 2 play tested at all?

No way I am playing it HvH or telling others to buy the game until this Wizard of OZ stuff is nerfed.

I really don't understand why your are so upset. Nobody will use this tactic if you have some gentleman agreement with your opponent and the AI is not concerned with this.
Nobody has interest to exploit gamey tactics for we play long term campaigns.
Finally I'm pretty sure that motorizing 1 infantry corps per turn is not a good tactic in the long run for it burns quickly all your trucks and AP that could be used elswhere (depots, changing leaders, etc.).

You will always find someone who experiemtns a lot to find ways to work around some rules or find/use exploits.
In WitE1 we had several versions released purely to fix recently discovered exploits/work arounds.

*Pelton has joined the chat*

at least Pelton reported those on a regular basis

ORIGINAL: Denniss

at least Pelton reported those on a regular basis

he didn't really, he used his position as a tester to then set up a series of easy wins when a given patch was released.